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Terry Lynn
Unregistered guest
Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 9:27 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Other than Buenas Aires, which communities are most popular with internationals?
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lili chu
New member
Username: Lili

Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 8:00 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I have a questions:
60 yrs old, want to retire in BA, medical system?
price of apartments? (old one)
best area? How is San Telmo safety?
American Banks?
apartments can be purchased with mortgage?
what is the interest paid by Banks?
I have to become citizen of Argentina in order to
live in BA?
Thanks a lot,
Lili
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 198
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 2:50 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Lili, Michael at www.apartmensba.com is the best person to answer your questions. In general, you can purchase a good flat for less than USD $200/150k. I have heard that the medical system is far superior in the US, however, my experience is that it is a very good one, depending on your medical insurance.

Considering your age I would prefer a neighborhood other than San Telmo. Most apartments -if not all- get purchased cash but there could be some alternative dealing I do not know of. Michael Koh will know more, for sure. The interest you can get at a Bank will probably be more attractive than the one you can get within the american Bank system but together with that comes the risk. In the last two decades, Argentina has shown little stability in its financial, monetary system so I would discourage anyone thinking on keeping their life savings -earned abroad- in an argentine Bank, in particular, since your age does not bode well for taking unnecessary risks.

You might be able to live for a while without becoming a citizen. Since you are not thinking of working you will not require a work permit. But not having a DNI or any other local document will make your life somewhat more difficult (like opening bank accounts, etc). Check with this guy who is an expat in Argentina. He probably has good advice.
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lili chu
New member
Username: Lili

Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 3:49 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

ROBERT,
THANKS FOR YOUR E-MAIL, but
what's wrong with San Telmo?
I have only $40.000, Recoleta
is very expensive !
For $150-$200 thous I move to Florida.
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 199
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Oh... then, let me give you an update on Florida, at least the part where I live, Miami. A two bedroom -spacious at 1600 sq feet- brand new apartment in miami beach, ocean front, goes for 1.5 mill. I probably stretched it a bit and the real range may be 100/150 for a 3 bedroom. Yes, you can find one bedrooms for a lot less, too.

San Telmo can get pretty funny at night. Some streets may be ok but some other ones may not. If you are 60, why risk it? It is a nice, alternative neighborhood but you can find a similar experience (old houses and quite neighborhood) in the area of Palermo viejo with houses as big as the ones you can get in San Telmo. Don't get me wrong. I like San Telmo but I am considering several other factors... your age, nationality, etc. When all factors get combined San Telmo may not be the wisest choice in spite of the great beer/peanuts/music you get on Saturday nights.
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 200
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 4:59 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Terry, how should I understand *communities*? Buenos Aires is both a state and the capital of Argentina (City of Buenos Aires) and more than 3 million people live there, over 10 million if you take into account Great Buenos Aires.

I have heard that there are many foreigners in southern patagonia, places like Bariloche. Or even El Bolson and Esquel. Rosario may be a nice, smaller city that may appeal to foreigners.

(Message edited by admin on November 09, 2005)
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Apartmentsba.com
Junior Member
Username: Saint

Post Number: 40
Registered: 5-2005
Posted on Monday, January 09, 2006 - 9:32 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Lili,

More and more of my clients are buying properties here and retiring here. Why? The cost of living is so darn cheap. Also, the quality of life is so high if you have a source of U$S funds which you will in a few years with retirement payout of social security, pensions, etc.

The medical system here is good. The physicians of course are better in the USA but there are many American trained physicians or that went to USA medical schools here. My personal physician went to UCLA medical school, speaks perfect English and used to live in California. I do have private medical insurance. I pay u$s 50 per month and that is for full insurance with no co-pays. There are many good health plans like OSDE, Swiss Medical and others. OSDE is one of the best. It's what I have. I pay 150 pesos a month. I've never used it. Why? If I get sick and it's minor I just go to my personal doctor. He charges me 100 pesos ($35) for a visit and he is even willing to make house calls!! That amount of money is what I was paying for my co-pays in the USA. Prescription drugs are very cheap here compared to the USA and most things you don't need a prescription. Just go to any pharmacy.

Apartment prices are going up and have been and will keep going up so don't expect any really really cheap places. Not much you can get for your budget. Budget about at least $900 per sq. meter for anything decent. (1 sq. meter = 10 sq. feet) so obviously you can't get much for your savings.

Renting is cheap though.

You won't do any banking here. No one trusts the banks here. Still, it's VERY easy to do banking here with USA bank accounts. Open an online bank at places like www.bankdirect.com / www.netbank.com / www.everbank.com All will give you free ATM cards and you can withdraw up to u$s 500 (1,500 pesos) per day with no fees from the banks or the ATM machines here. Very easy.

Mortgages here are rare. For foreigners impossible. The locals pay 12% interest and have to have 50% down and the time frame is only 10 years. No thanks. Almost everyone pays 100% cash for their properties.

Nope, you don't have to be a resident to live here. Argentina is one of the easiest places in teh world to live without residency status. Just cross the ferry every 3 months into Uruguay (4 times a year). Very quick and easy.

Hope that helps. BA is a wonderful place and I really love living here. In fact, I don't think I will ever live in the USA again. There is nothing I miss about the USA. It's a real paradise here if you have US Dollars.
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bevian0
Unregistered guest
Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 9:41 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi,
I'e been living in the USA for the past 25 years and I am now fed up. I am orginally from London.

I can not afford to grow old in the USA.
I am 49 and I've been looking for somewhere else to live.

Europe has become increasingly expensive. I decided to take a trip to Argentina and Uruguay this past September....I fell in love with Argentina...I felt that I woke up from a 6 year coma....Culture, art,Food etc.

I was ready to move straight away....
With my head out of the clouds...I need to know what it really takes to live well as a foreigner in Argentina....And what the economic future holds.

The ideal situation would be for me to have a business and my own home, this way I am ensured an income.

My question is, how easy is it to own a business and property in Argentina and do foreigners have the same protection as locals? and how easy is it to transfer money out of Argentina. Is it best to keep your money outside Argentina?
Is it easy getting Busniss permits for such things as restaurants? Is there a lot of corruption?

How about residency permits?

Thanks for youe help
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 322
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 10:29 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Welcome, bevian0!

The answer to all your questions is yes, IF you have the right contacts. Otherwise, there may be bumps on the road. My experience is the opposite: I am an argentine who left the country in 1991 to move to the US and comparing both systems I'd say some homework is in order.

After 25 years in the US you may have become too used to, to the easiness of how things flow here only to barely notice that almost everything falls into place (maybe not the right one, at times). One of the attractions of Argentina is that it happens the other way, things that are supposed to fall don't even fall, so you are in for suprises. No doubt life becomes more interesting but at some point you may start missing your coma. Don't get me wrong. I love my country and don't want to be a party-pooper but I will hate to see that you move and then become disappointed after a great first impression.

At a minimum, you simply cannot determine anything about Argentina's economic future. So far, so good. And there are indications that the present steady progress may last for a while but whether it is 3 more years or 25, noone knows. The benefits Argentina has experienced in the recent past are based in part to a worldwide recovery of commodities' pricing, in addition to a phenomenal currency devaluation. As tourism becomes more prevalent and consolidates as an industry, you could see some of the cheaper pricing erode and become par to international standards. And as commodities' pricing weakens, you could see internal politics come into play. Both of these moves may bring back disruptions... nothing new to us, but something that may not be part of your british DNA or american blueprint.

However, the fact that there are 36/37 million souls enjoying the pleasures of less governmental enforcement, of a more open-minded society and a general relaxed attitude towards *everything*, says that things are probably NOT that bad.

In my humble view, you have to play it by year in Argentina whereas in the US you have to play by the rules. This notion will come to you quickly if you can spend more time confronting the daily little struggles all argentines go through 7x24.

Many, many argentines keep their savings abroad. Many also bring them back when appropriate but 'not-so-deep' in our minds we know it is a gamble. And there is nothing more thrilling in life than placing bets!

Expats will probably give you a more precise view of what has worked for them. Generally speaking I would think that having an income that is not based in Argentina is *good*. For example, if you have a pension in us dollars or receive money from abroad. If you want to keep it completely local and generate income within Argentina from a business such as a restaurant, then, other considerations may come into play. As for owning property, that is probably the easiest thing to achieve. I know nothing about residency or work permits, unfortunately.

There are a few members of this forum that have successfully moved down to Buenos Aires, started their own business and surpassed anybody's expectations, including their own. For them, life is heaven in Argentina. I think at the core of their success lies that they could see the reality of the picture and were able to exploit great inneficiencies.
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Apartmentsba.com
Junior Member
Username: Saint

Post Number: 43
Registered: 5-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 8:16 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Bevian,

You arenít alone. I assist many foreigners (many from the USA, UK and Europe) on a weekly basis. They are planning to retire here in the next year or so and I have helped them with purchasing property here. They have the same plan as you do Ė to retire here. Retiring in the USA or Europe has just gotten terribly expensive. When you factor in cost of living, medical care, prescription drug costs, housing, utility bills, etc. many will have a shock when they hit retirement. Many just canít afford to live there. Argentina is an excellent place to retire or semi-retire in certain situations. Itís NOT for everyone though.

It is a good option if you have SIGNIFICANT savings built up or you have a steady steam of income coming in from investments, property rentals, or retirement plans or pensions or social security or disability payments. If you have no savings, no steady steam of income then you may want to rethink things.

It is VERY difficult to make any significant income here. The cost of living (inflation) has kicked in and itís estimated to get even more expensive. Never forget that Argentina Ėbefore the crash- was one of the most expensive cities in the world. I donít foresee that ever happening again but I do see the cost of living going up. The only thing certain about Argentina is that there is no certainty and things will keep changing. There is some sort of financial disaster about every 10 years.

I also fell in love with Argentina my first trip here. I felt like selling everything I owned and moving here. I had a wonderful life in the USA, made quite a bit of money, lived in the big house and drove the BMW. I didnít move here to escape a bad life. I wanted to move here because I really fell in love with the city. Before I moved here, I formulated a business plan and I worked on it for 2 years before I moved here. I flew down here over 15 times before deciding to move here. It was all that planning that has enabled me to have a successful business after I moved down here (that and a lot of hard work and investment within Argentina and building up a good network and contact base).

To answer your question, even if you got involved in a business you canít guarantee that you will make significant income. Most foreigners fall in love with Argentina and want to move here or do move here but quickly move back to their home country because they never really thought it through and didnít have a good ďgame planĒ of how they will make money or survive. Doing business in Argentina is probably one of the most difficult places in the world to do business. The system is really Ďbrokení here. There is a lot of unethical businesses and itís really tough to get things done. There is a LOT of red tape on seemingly simple things. There is corruption as well. Never forget Argentina is ranked as one of the most corrupt countries in the world Ė (see - http://www.transparency.org/cpi/2004/cpi2004.en.html - Tranparency Internationalís annual survey). Argentina is in the ranks of many African nations like Congo, Niger, Cameroon, Sudan, Angola, Zimbabwe and countries like Iraq, Bangladesh and Haiti. You really have to have good contacts, good lawyers and good accountants and advisors.

These things should serve as a wake up call to the current situation here. Itís NOT easy doing business here. I own 3 successful corporations here in Argentina and I donít think Iíll ever get used to the way things are done here. However, itís for all these reasons that my company has exploded so rapidly. I saw how inefficient/corrupt/unorganized the system and the companies are here and I worked hard, invested significant amounts of time and money and now we are a leader in our field.

To answer your questions, itís easy to purchase property here and you have the same rights and privileges as the locals. In fact, many private and public surveys estimate that as much as 50% of the high end properties in the past 3 years has been done by foreigners. As one of the largest buyers of residential property in Buenos Aires in 2005 I can tell you that those private estimates are true. More and more of Buenos Aires is falling into the hands of foreigners. I donít see that trend slowing down. In fact, quite the opposite. Iím dealing/consulting with groups of investors that are planning real estate purchases here in BA in the tens of millions of dollars. There was just an article in the paper the other day about an Australian investment group that is planning to purchase u$s 60 million in real estate here in Buenos Aires. They are just one of several groups planning such purchases. I would say you are fine on real estate purchases here. I own several properties here and itís quite easy to purchase property here. (Just make sure you stay current on your property taxes each year).

Itís easy to transfer money out of Argentina. (Much easier and cheaper than transferring IN to Argentina believe it or not). Itís best to keep all your money OUTSIDE of Argentina. You can easily keep your money in offshore banks in the USA, UK and Europe. Itís not that easy to get residency here believe it or not. Argentina makes it difficult to get residency here but it can be done. One of the best things is that Argentina doesnít limit you to the amount of time you can stay in the country. You can simply cross the border into Uruguay on the ferry and just come back the same day. You only have to do this every 3 months (4 times a year) and you can live here permanently. I know Americans that have been living here for 10 years or more doing this. Countries like Brazil make it very very difficult only limiting you to 180 days a year in the country and getting residency is very very difficult.

I would say that you should really structure a solid business plan and plan in general before moving here. Itís not easy to make money and starting a business is not easy. I would say that most foreigners that try starting businesses here will fail. The key is making solid and important local contacts. That is essential in a country like Argentina. One of my businesses involves consulting and helping foreigners start businesses here. Most of the initial consultations I hear I end up telling the people their businesses would never work here. There are a lot of bad ideas here. Keep in mind many things that are great ideas in other countries like the USA/UK won't work here. It's a totally different culture/world here.

The other good option is if you can do the same job that you did in the USA over the internet/phone/email/fax. I know people that did make it but they are basically doing the same thing they did in the USA. They just need high-speed Internet and a USA # and they are doing the same thing. Technology like Vonage.com is essential to living here. If you can work over the internet and do the same job this is a perfect scenario for you.

If I didnít take time before I moved here to build solid networking contacts within the banking, financial, legal, accounting and governmental sectors I wouldnít have made it here. Also, keep in mind that you need to be prepared to invest a significant amount of money if you want a serious business. You can easily buy a business cheaply but it probably wonít produce much revenue. Just remember that there are very educated (some in the USA, UK, Europe) Ė in fact my bankers are educated in the UK, my lawyers in the USA, accountants in Europe -- They are totally bilingual and they arenít making much money so how would you?? You need to think about these kind of things.

Iím one of those people Roberto is talking about. I didnít know how things would turn out here in Argentina but I knew that I would regret it later on in life if I didnít at least try. I knew I could go back to the USA and very easily get a job again making a lot of money. I didnít move to Argentina for the money (after all, who moves to Argentina to get rich??). I moved here because I love the city, the people and the culture. Even now I have received several offers to purchase my company for more than what most people would see in their lifetime. Still, Iím totally not interested as I didnít move here for the money and I love what I do. Follow the advice of people that know what they are talking about like Roberto. I had the good pleasure to meet him in person. Listen to what people like him write about. They know what they are talking about.

Never let anyone tell you that ďit canít be doneĒ or that you are ďfoolish to move to ArgentinaĒ. In fact, not one person told me I should move to Argentina and everyone told me it was a mistake. I proved them all wrong. Just make sure you have a good plan and prepare your move ahead of time. As Roberto said, living here in Argentina is "heaven" for me and I don't plan to move back to the USA. Funny now I go to the USA for vacations!

My best of luck to you.

mike@apartmentsba.com
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bevian0
Unregistered guest
Posted on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 2:25 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Dear Roberto & Mike:

Thank you for your candor and honest insight. Both of you have given me food for thought; A consultation that is invaluable, thanks again.

I knew that I would have to have a plan for my move, I do plan to return to Argentina in the next few months to see if there are any opportunities for me and how feasible it would be for me to really live there. I know that I would have to have a Business and I'm trying to think where my skills apply & what my niche could be.

I am trying to make contacts all the time. I know that I will probaly need to go back and forth numerous times....

At the moment I live in West Palm Beach, FL
I'm in the Hospitality & Travel Industry at the moment, I've owed a Cafe, an Art Gallery and ran a sucessful Supperclub in NYC. I've dabbled in Real Estate and owned a couple of Condos.

I'm looking into Real Estate and seasonal rental in somewhere like Mar Del Plata or Punta Del Este.
I also like Food & Beverage...And of course I looking into an online type of situation...
IN SHORT I"M THINKING.

I think that I might have a niche in the food & beverage background as I have very strong front of the house skills and my interesting look.

Anymore thoughts guys?
I would love more imput from you both.

Thanks again
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Apartmentsba.com
Junior Member
Username: Saint

Post Number: 44
Registered: 5-2005
Posted on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 5:16 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Bevian,

You're certainly welcome. Just make sure to make a strong business plan BEFORE moving no matter what business you are going to do. Real estate might be your strongest play. I bought more residential real estate last year than any single individual in the world (based on the u$s amount spent) so I know a thing or two about this subject.

I flew to Punta del Este a few times to look at real estate. While they DO have some gorgeous properties, the rate of returns are very very low compared to other areas. Granted, you can make 6% returns per year only renting out 2 months out out the year (high season is January and part of February). There isn't much of a rental season after that. That is why I passed up on buying real estate there. Mar Del Plata isn't as attractive as BA either.

You will find that many people are in a similar situation as you are. They can't really make enough income here or don't have the desire to work or start a business. If you have the cash to buy a few properties you can live off the income. Just keep in mind purchases here are 100% cash with no mortgages so be prepared to pony up all the cash to buy and furnish a property. Rates of return are amazing though. Most of my clients NETTED about 11% - 15% per year on the rental income alone. (This of course doesn't count the capital appreciation of at least 30% a year that most made last year). A few are in your situation and are just living off the rental income.

Just keep in mind that BA is as cheap or expensive as you want to make it. I just reviewed my budget and I actually spent more living in Buenos Aires last year in 2005 than I did in the USA. This doesn't include any business expenses. This is just personal expenses.

You can have a very cheap life here if you want though but everything adds up. I live on Ave. Alvear where rents are in u$s NOT pesos. I go out to eat about 2-3 times every single day as I don't have the desire or time to cook. I am in about 10 taxis a day. I do a lot of clothes shopping. Also, i have always donated a % of all income I make to various charities here. And the biggest expense is traveling. Being in Argentina, I really love to travel around and hit Rio, Patagonia, Mendoza, Punta del Este, etc.

Take whatever skills or business skills you have in the USA or another country and kind of throw them out the window. Sure they will help but it's another world here.

I'm thinking about opening a restaurant/bar in the future but really hesitant. The reason why I would is because I can "cross market" and refer all the guests I have from all the properties I own/manage. This is a unique situation which would be very different than the average foreigner trying to open a restaurant here.

The key is to prepare, budget and do projections of how much you need to invest and how much you can earn per year.

Good luck!
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laura zurro
New member
Username: Sapphos

Post Number: 1
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 9:51 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

If you don't want to live in Buenos Aires directly, try the suburbs of Zona Norte. It's very green there with lots of trees, close proximity to the river, and a lot of sports. Very popular with expats from many countries(doesn't mean you have to hang with them.) We chose to make our move to this area rather than in Capital because although we love the city, we don't want to deal with the noise and pollution, and it was much easier to find a house where we could fit easily with our two big dogs.

If you love outdoor sports and a much more laid back atmostphere, try Mendoza. The Andes are close by and there are tons of outdoor sports like mountain biking, hiking, hang-gliding, climbing, camping, etc. It's also within several hours of the Chilean border by bus or by car. We considered relocating there, but in the end decided we preferred to stay closer to a big city, but we would go back for vacation anytime.

For the person who posted about buying in Florida vs Argentina. If you mean Miami, then it's true what Roberto said, real estate here is sky high and 200,000 isn't going to buy you much, and the cost of insurance just skyrocketed yet again. We sold our house just at the end of last August after a hurricane with minimal damage and as we were selling it I got a new tax bill (increase of $5,000 ) and a new insurance bill (increase as well and decrease in coverage.) On top of that we saw the house again after Wilma, and it had much more damage. So if you move to South Florida (or almost any part of Florida nowadays), expect high insurance, taxes, food, electricity (increased this year as well), and high real estate prices.

And if you think that it will be easy to get a mortgage in Miami be ready to of money down. I couldn't get four different properties to close easily last year because the properties have become so overvalued.

If think that Argentina has a lot of corruption and problems, well it does but at least you know what to expect unlike the U.S. where you expect and don't necessarily get.

Feel free to email me if you have questions.

(Message edited by admin on February 14, 2006)
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 326
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 10:16 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Welcome, Laura. If you wrote "f-o-r-k out a lot" of money the script may have interpreted this with a 'u' and a 'c', sorry.

I will do a minor edit to your post in a bit. Your contribution is most welcomed. We do however, prefer a lower profile without direct personal links. It keeps threads focused.

If you are an expert in your field or provide important advice anyone with a brain will do what I just did :-). You have a nice blog and a nice background by the way. And will surely find success as a writer.
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 327
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 1:40 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

> will do what I just did.

Just in case, I meant clicking on your profile not editing your post.
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Apartmentsba.com
Junior Member
Username: Saint

Post Number: 46
Registered: 5-2005
Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 1:41 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Laura makes some great points. If you aren't a "Big city person" there are so many towns in Argentina. I really love the South of Argentina. I really enjoyed Villa la Angostura and have plans to buy some land there and build a house. Bariloche is also great especially in the private community Arrelauquen. Just keep in mind property prices are really going up quickly down there as well. Also, just make sure you research the laws in buying properties in different areas. It's not the same as Buenos Aires. I would imagine you could rent a good place in the South if you like that type of setting. It's a really beautiful area.

Laura was also right about the high cost of property taxes and just the general cost of living in general. If you have a source of income in u$s and can live in Argentina you can live like a king here....
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Terry Lynn
Unregistered guest
Posted on Monday, March 06, 2006 - 3:49 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Test
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james asbell
New member
Username: Gato

Post Number: 1
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 8:40 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I recently visited Mendoza on vacation and I am seriously considering purchasing vineyard property with the thoughts of retiring there in 4 or 5 years.
However I am a little concerned about security issues, as barbed wire and private guards were commanplace. Should I be concerned?
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t tyne
Unregistered guest
Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 10:04 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

i live the south okanagan BC would like to relocate to area in AG to climate milder winters ie. mean winter 10c summer 25c anny such zones
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 370
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 11:02 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

t tyne, I think you should seriously look into Cordoba.

(Message edited by admin on March 26, 2006)
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 371
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 11:20 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

James, your inquiry is very specific. Unless someone has had direct experience with this issue, in that location and related field, I doubt you will get anything from our answers.

I personally can't imagine acts of violence against private commercial property in places like Mendoza, however, for what is worth, some large foreign landowners did report numerous incidents of 'cuatreros' stealing their sheeps (deep patagonia), like the Benetton's family. In all, it seems to have been an isolated case of a vindicative nature. But on the other hand, rural Argentina is typically *very* isolated and you cannot expect local police or local authorities to enforce anything. I've heard many many stories from friends living in southern patagonia about situations that would resemble the wild west a lot.
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sandramann
Unregistered guest
Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 7:10 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

My husband and I just got back from visiting family in Salta (and BA) and now we are seriously considering retiring to Salta. We have two small houses in NJ and would sell them both and use the money to buy a modest house in Salta and invest the rest of the money. Does anyone know how much a modest house would cost in Salta? Are there any other major expenses to consider - such as property taxes. I will eventually talk to my cousin about it but I want to do some homework first.
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 377
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 11:21 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hello Sandra, given that noone with specific information has chimed in here is my little help... These links may be a start in your due dilligence (I assume you handle some spanish)

Camara de Turismo de Salta
Casa de Salta
Venta inmuebles Salta
Inmuebles in Salta

The last 2 links offer real estate in Salta and checking the listing may give you a vague idea. I was kind of surprise by some prices...

(Message edited by admin on March 30, 2006)
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Sandra Mann
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Username: Sandramann

Post Number: 1
Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 02, 2006 - 11:35 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thank you for the help, Roberto. I too was surprised by the prices of the houses given that everything else there seemed so reasonable. It was interesting that they were all given in US dollars too.
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Rommel Angeles
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Username: Conguero

Post Number: 1
Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 5:39 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hello everyone. New to the forum and thanks in advance for the valuable information shared here. I too am from the US and considering living in Argentina for 6 months to a year. I'm saving money to support myself for the 6 months of being there but I am also looking for jobs to help support myself while being there. What is the average rental cost there? What kind of temp jobs do most foreigners do? Is there a demand of English teaching jobs in Buenos Aires? My background is in Telecom and I'm ok not doing anything related to my field. In fact, I'm looking at this 6months to a year to be a break from this life in US. I look forward to hearing from you.
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Roberto
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Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 6:58 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Welcome Rommel!

There is a market for teaching english for sure, but there is a lot of 'offer' already so you may have to work your way in. I know about a 2 bedroom apt. located in a decent area that goes for about usd $385/month. Don't know if that is average but will give you an indication. A one bedroom should be economical.

Expats may have a different opinion but I am of the idea that you should try to get some income from the US, not from Argentina, as that may prove a lil' difficult, if not frustating, if not disappointing... There's been a huge wave of outsourcing recently and perhaps you can find an opportunity there like doing some light work for an american company from Argentina... In Buenos Aires, it will still be easy to break from your normal US habits. Can guarantee you of that.
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Roderick Chapman
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Username: Roderick

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Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 6:14 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi, I have a few questions to ask you. I visited Buenos Aires in January and really liked the city. I am from Vancouver Canada amd was thinking of buying a little condo in a nice area (thinking of my semi-retirement down the road). What would be the average price that I would have to pay for a condo approx. 700 - 800 sq ft.? A few areas that I liked when I visted there was Recoleta and Barrio Norte, is there any other areas that you would suggest? Also is it hard to rent them out when you are not there? Also if I was to sell the condo down the road is it hard to get your money out of Buenos aires? Also is there alot of hidden costs to buying a place in Buenos Aires? Last question are the taxes expensive there to own a condo?
If you could give me some advice to think about before I go any further with this idea I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks so much!!!!!
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Apartmentsba.com
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Username: Saint

Post Number: 56
Registered: 5-2005
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 6:25 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Roderick,

Just about everything you asked is on my website (which has been called the most accurate and informative source of buying real estate in Buenos Aires in the world).

www.apartmentsba.com/consulting

You can read articles about Buenos Aires real estate here:

www.apartmentsba.com/media

Property is priced by the sq. meter so it just depends on the neighborhood. You can buy in Recoleta in non-ritzy parts for $1,300 - $1,600 per sq. meter while prices in my building where I live on Ave. Alvear are over u$s 3,000 per sq. meter. It just depends where you buy. In Barrio Norte you can still find places for $1,200 - $1,300 per sq. meter.

You can have a company manage it when you aren't here. The city is crowded with rental companies. Some better than others. Just do a google.com search of apartment rentals buenos aires and you will get a long list.

Selling real estate is easy. As a foreigner you will need a special permit from AFIP (like our IRS in Argentina) to sell. They will verify you are up to date on your taxes. Keep in mind it can take up to 75 days to get this permit once you request it. Other than that it is simple as long as you paid all your property taxes. Property taxes (or asset taxes) are only 0.75% of the purchase price.

Moving money OUT of Argentina is actually very very easy. It's much easier than bringing it in which many find ironic. It costs as much as 1.5% of the amount you are sending to bring it in while it costs just a flat fee of usually less than $200 to wire an unlimited amount OUT of Argentina.

Read the links I gave you and you will find everything you wanted to know.

Good luck.
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Kurtis
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Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 3:45 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Million de gracias, Roberto y otros. This is the kind of info I have been looking for. This summer, I will visit BA and other areas as my usual vagabond self with the added incentive of finding a place to call home. I'm happy to have surfed upon this site on this enchanted evening.
Chao
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sofia
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Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 3:52 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi,Could somebody please recomend me any immigration lowyer other than ARCA ( this one is extremely expensive )to make residential Visa for the family.
Is it possible to do while in BA ??,and what about DNI ??
Please help with some info..

Thank you
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Apartmentsba.com
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Username: Saint

Post Number: 57
Registered: 5-2005
Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 4:00 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

ARCA IS expensive but they are the only one to guarantee their work. I will post later about my experience with another big firm in town that I had a HORRIBLE experience with. There is NO firm in Buenos Aires as organized as ARCA. Lorena is very detail oriented and I can't recommend them enough.

In the end, it's all about results and most of the local companies are really bad. I wish I could recommend someone else but the other companies I know that other people used had problems or never got their visas or the company made a lot of mistakes.

I will post a very detailed post when I get back from my trip regarding this.

Good luck.
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Laura Zurro
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Username: Sapphos

Post Number: 15
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Sofia,
I am working with a company other than ARCA. Email me or private message me and I will be happy to give you their contact information. Yes there are problematic companies out there, but they are definately not the only company you can work with.

Laura
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Eunice Venables
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Posted on Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 12:25 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi:
I am a Canadian woman, aged 58 who has never visited Argentina but would like to spend this Winter...Oct-March living in Argentina.
Not BA as too big and polluted; however, what would the weather and climate be like in Cordoba or Mendosa? I would like to rent a 2 bedroom furnished place....what would the rents be like? I also would like to take some Spanish lesson and do some volunteering. I would also like to visit Peru sometime in that period......any suggestions? What other places would you suggest, that offer a comfortable climate and would be a good introduction into Argentina living? Gracias. Euni.
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Laura Zurro
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Username: Sapphos

Post Number: 19
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Posted on Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 6:41 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Eunice,

I'm responding to your question from travelsur. My husband and I recently relocated here, I'm from the States (NE) and he's originally from France.

During our research time of which areas to relocate to, we spent several trips in Buenos Aires and her suburbs. The suburbs of B.A. are very nice and relatively quiet. There are some great country areas just outside of BA as well that are great and still give you access to the city if you want to enjoy that part.

We also spent time in Mendoza. If you are looking for a quiet city with well priced rents, then you would probably enjoy Mendoza quite a lot. It's a much smaller city with Sycamore tree lined street. There are a lot of Europeans, partticularly Germans, and a good amount of retirees visiting. The architecture is also very European. Sarmiento Street is a walking street that is full of shops and restaurants and ends at the Plaza.
During the summer (remember the seasons are reversed) it is quite dry in the area however. It was essentially a desert until the Mendocino's harnessed the power of water to hydrate the area. There are a number of short term rentals in the area but many of them are a bit older - I'm not sure what exactly you would be looking for in rents, but I still have the contact info of somone there that we rented from and I believe he had a larger apartment as well.
If you like outdoor activities, the area is full of them, everything from trekking to cabalgatas (horseback riding) to rafting.

Cordoba is supposed to be quite nice as is the city Rosario which is between Cordoba and Buenos Aires.

Regarding Spanish, there are immersion programs everywhere. You will find in places like Mendoza and Buenos Aires, that there are people who speak English but it will always behoove you to attempt to speak Spanish first. If you don't have any Spanish under your belt already, I would at least try to do some casettes or a local class before your stay, it will make things easier for you once your there.

I think I may still have some information that I saved from Mendoza for classes if you decide to go there, and you could email me for that.

I have some information on our trip to Mendoza as well as part of the overall process of what we went through setting up here that you might find useful. http://movingtoargentina.typepad.com

One last thing, anywhere around Buenos Aires you will most likely be required to pay your rent up front. In Mendoza, as a short term renter you will most likely run into the same thing. Just a forewarning.

Research as much as you can before the trip. I'm sure you'll have a wonderful time, it's a great country with great people (but always keep your eyes out for tourist targeted scams - like exist in many places in the world).

Laura
http://movingtoargentina.typepad.com
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Roberto
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Post Number: 419
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Posted on Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 4:46 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Eunice, adding to what Laura said, Cordoba may be of your interest too and I would suggest you do some research here. Cordoba is drier than Buenos Aires and offers a combination of outdoors as well as cultural activities. You may be luckier in Cordoba for volunteering work as there are many more churches. Culturally, you may get a little more from your stay here than in Mendoza and will have the opportunity to be in contact with many long term argentine traditions (folklore music, etc). It may also be a lesser known destination to foreigners (not locals) so you will have lots of oportunities to mingle.

It is always a good idea to get here with some basic spanish if you are planning for an extended stay. For spanish in Argentina programs you can check some of the listings here. ILEE has offices in Cordoba.

You can fly Buenos Aires-Lima anytime. A very common trip to Peru involves visiting the area of Cuzco and Machu Pichu (we walked the inca trail for 2 days), and then Aguas Calientes at the base of the mountains. I did this while living in Buenos Aires and remember it as one of the greatest trips I ever made. The Incas had an AWESOME culture!
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susan wallace
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Username: Saltydog

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Posted on Saturday, May 27, 2006 - 10:06 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Eunice,
I just joined and read your May02 posting. You are shown as an unreistered guest so I hope you are still reading these posts.
My name is Susan and I am in similiar circumstances to those you outlined in your posting.-Canadian as well. I am planning to visit Argentina next winter for six months from November to April. I have been to BA before and fell in love with Mendoza.I speak some Spanish but also wish to take classes.
I have some local contacts in Mendoza.
I have several friends and family members who would like to join me for short visits during my sojourn.
So I am planning to rent a furnished house with a pool hopefully in town or alternatively there are some residential areas near Mendoza itself that are quite lovely.
I want my local friends to find the house and rent it for me because the price goes way up if the landlord knows the potential renter is gringo.
I have travelled worldwide and lived in Costa Rica, Mexico and South Africa as a part-time resident.But I have always obtained permanent residency status in each place except South Africa. Many of the problems people write about on this Blog are very similar in all third world and developing countries.
I am going to apply for residency in Argentina as hopping over to Uruguay or Chile is not that convienent from Mendoza. I have sufficient income to qualify for residency status and I will be starting the process ASAP as it will probably take six months to get it done.
I would be very interested in talking with you one to one. I would love to have a partner in the house rental.
"E" ne mail at spwallace924@hotmail.com and I will send you my phone number.
I think this sight is great. I have all kinds of questions to ask people and I also have answers to some things others are asking. So I expect to start blogging here quite regularly.
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Roberto
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Post Number: 474
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Posted on Saturday, May 27, 2006 - 11:04 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Susan, welcome! You can email Eunice as well. Just click on her name...
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Robert Gisborn
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Username: Bgisborn

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Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 8:14 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Dear Roberto, You are the most informative and helpful person I have ever encountered on the web. Please allow this question though it may not exactly fit the conditions of this thread. your answer is very important to me.
I am over 70 with a gross income of between USD 27000 and 30000. I am a single male in relatively good health. I have been fascinated with your your beautiful country and highly developed culture for many years and I wish to move to Argentina and live there until I die. I have no intersest in investing in real estate. I simply would like to rent a house or rooms in a house.
I do not as yet speak Spanish but I read it very well and I read the Clarin daily on the web. What worries me about BA is the base and violent crimes older people in BA are suffering. I wonder if Mendoza would be a better selection for me-or maybe you can suggest a location. I'm in love with your country so anywhere would satisfy me but recognizing the the fact that I don't really like very cold winters.

Bob
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Bill Howard
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Username: Veritas01

Post Number: 2
Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 9:32 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I am 56 year old American who is married to a 30 year old Argentine national. We currently live in the United States. I have traveled to Argentina on several occasions and I have visited many area in Buenos Aires and Cordoba province. I personally love Buenos Aires but it is obvious it has both advantages and disadvantages. I would like to retire to Argentina at 62. I will receive a good pension, social security and, if needed, modest withdrawals from my 401K. I personally like Buenos Aires and Monte Hermoso...Monte is a small beach resort in southern Buenos Aires province. It is about 45-60 minutes from Bahia Blanca a very large port city. Bahia has hospitals, cultural facilities and shopping. Monte has a great beach, affordable housing and it is a great little town..quiet in the winter and busy in the summer. I also like Cordoba. Big city with lots to offer but without the craziness of BA. My wife is a big Mar del fan so that is on the list.
Cordoba has tolerable winters I have been told. You get a few months in the 40's but the rest of the year is decent. The rents are pretty cheap. My sister in law works there and has a pretty good one bedroom apt and she pays about 400 pesos a month...600 including everything...or around 200 dollars USD. Argentina has broad band internet and I believe you can get a special satellite package that allows you to get some US stations. Jumptv on the web allows you to subscribe to many channels over the web.

I am interested is hearing how you and others make out with your retirement plans. It is a wonderful country and so affordable at this time. Of course when I first started going there in 2000 and the peso was on a par with the dollar it was about the same as the US. That is my big fear that the inflation (currently running at 15% this year) will eventually erode the value of my USD.

Good luck. I think it is a wonderful place to live...and quite frankly to die. I want to buy a small motorcyle...and travel around the amazing country.
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Tom Woodson
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Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 42
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 10:33 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hello Bill
Argentina has a fiber optics reacing out into Buenos Aires province. You can get Direct TV, satellite, with all the US channels you need, HBO, etc. You can set your system to Spanish or to English speaking channels.
Inflation is affecting Argentine in a way that it will have to be brought under control. I believe they will succeed.
The dollar is 3 to 1 against the peso. I think it will stay pretty much the same for a long time.
The government recently stopped the exporting of beef with the idea that domestic prices will go down. So far I do not believe it has. It will be interesting to see how that plays out.
It is a great country.

Hasta Luego
Tom
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Tom Woodson
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Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 43
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 10:40 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

They stopped the exporting for a six month period. I did not mean to suggest they stopped it forever.

Hasta Luego
Tom
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Roberto
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Post Number: 549
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Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 12:29 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Bob, your concerns are those of many folks down there. Crime against the elderly has been on the rise in Buenos Aires (the city) and I personally worry about my loved ones. This is not a 'tourists only' problem.

I can't back my opinion with facts, but I am pretty sure that the crime situation is a bit different when considering inland states, like Mendoza. Given your age and objectives, I would strongly recommend looking into places other than Buenos Aires. Mendoza does have a cold winter, perhaps Cordoba might be better. In both places you might be able to have a decent, quite retirement. With the added bonus of enjoying great, very hospitable places. If you look into Cordoba just start listening to a lot of 'chacareras'.

Bill provided us with some great insight about Cordoba!

Bill, I didn't know anything about Monte Hermoso but since you mentioned it, it will be one of my stops on my next visit. Those kind of rents will hardly be available in Buenos Aires...

Oh... the inflation thingy. Argentines reading the forum know a lot about this ole' friend of ours. Although always difficult to determine what causes it, instablity could be one of the culprits. At least, for countries with currencies other than the dollar. It works this way: as locals (both individuals and corps) begin to distrust domestic policy, demand for dollar denominated bills increases (as well as other currencies and assets). Many things can create distrust fueling inflation (those guys you see at the store marking up items at high speed), which creates more distrust and more inflation, generating a cycle of devaluation of local bills in favor of anything else. Briefly, when you look into past inflationary periods, dollars remained a safe haven, which makes sense.

I remember one ocassion collecting my fortnight check and running to the bank to cash it out and change the money to dollars. Process which made me lose 10% in one day. This happened in the middle of Alfonsin's hyperinflation.

Why this is not happening now I don't know. Possibly, the dollar at 3 to 1 was an exaggeration a few years back and now both currencies have been trying to find a match, leveling off in a way. So items priced in pesos are being inflated while the exchange rate remains the same. But since I am not an economist my opinion is as good as anyone's. In the near term, Argentina may remain a viable retirement option due to favorable rate of exchange, however, those considering the change should make an effort to dig into our history to understand the big picture. Not so long ago (early 80's) there was a time we used to call 'plata dulce' where financial conditions were just the opposite and argentines were buying everything and their mother in the US. There were places set up in Miami called "deme dos" (give me two) because argentines would buy 2 items out of everything!! Including TV sets and cars. This became such a thing that a famous director shot a movie. Watch the DVD, if it is available.

(Message edited by admin on June 18, 2006)
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Tom Woodson
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Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 45
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 8:07 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Buenos Aires is a city and A province. Two different things. Florida is a state and Florida City is a city. Not the same.

I have a home in a small town in Buenos Aires province. We do not lock our doors at all during the day. And that includes when no one is at home.

There are hundreds of small towns in Buenos Aires province that are among the safest places to be in the world.

I have been warned by people living in Buenos Aires province to be careful if I travel into other provinces.

Villa Gissell on the coast is a beautiful little town.
Paun, Pique, Coronel Suarez, General Madraiga, Pinamar, General Lavalle, Darregueira, and many more smaller towns that have the friendliest people on earth living in them.

How many stories could I tell you about the diffent people who went way out of their way to help me in my travels.

There is danger everywhere if one acts irresponsibly. Use your head and you will be safe anywhere in Argentina. I love Buenos Aries city and Buenos Aires Province. I try to use common sense.

The people, the beauty, the diversity, the natural wonders, the architecture, all make for a great country.

Roberto is correct, you have to be careful. But that is true anywhere you go.

Hast luego
Tom
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Bill Howard
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Username: Veritas01

Post Number: 3
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Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 12:41 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

The coastal cities I am familar with begin with Mar del Plata. It is the largest coastal city in Argentina and it reminds me of Myrtle Beach South Carolina. Huge summer population and a much smaller population in the off season. It has good infrastructure including a good hospital, roads, bus system, shops, restaurants and entertainment. During the summer it is very crowded but fun. The weather is very changeable and it can get raw and rainy even in the warmer months. It is a big college town off season. You are about 4 hours by bus from BA. During the summer people say it is like a little BA as many people from the city come to Mar del for vacation. The coast of some good apartments start in the 40K range depeneding on location. Good home and apartments are available. Look at mardelplata.com to get a sense of the costs. As to crime. It does have some small shanty towns and like everywhere in Argentina petty theft and break-ins are a problem. Less of an issue than in BA though. And if you are in a high rise apartment the threat of a break in is virtually non-existent. Driving is of course a pain as it is everywhere in Argentina. Very agressive drivers who routinely ignore traffic laws. Parking is also an issue in summer.

Moving down the coast is Miramar. Maybe an hour south. Nice city. Smaller than Mar del. Nice ocean front. Less services in the off season but again a short drive to Mar del and only 5 hours or so from BA. Much quieter city.

Further south a couple of more hours is Nechochea. Great place in the summer. Very nice beach. Not sure I would want to live here year round. The ocean front area closes up pretty tight. There is a town set back from the water that stays hopping. I was there in the spring once and the beach had a large number of sealions onshore. That was great to see.

Further south....in Monte Hermoso. They have a nice website. I love this town because even in summer it seems quiet. They have about 40 restaurants..a few bars...some hotels. Some shops though most are tourist oriented for the summer. There is a new condo being built. 3 bedroom/2 bath ocean front, pool, balconies, garage, 24 hour security, etc. 120K USD. And that is the creme de la creme. Get a more modest apartment or one set back from the beach a bit and you are well under 100K...some around 50k. I hear people from Mendoza come to Monte Hermoso rather than any beach resort because it is quieter and less crazy than Mar del and surrounds. The water is said to be the warmest on the coast. The town juts out into the water in such a way that you can see the sun rise and set over the water. Very nice. Crime is virtually nonexistent. Maybe some snatch and grab. Crimes of opportunity and of course break ins if you leave property unattended. But nothing compared to BA or Mar del. As I mentioned previously it is about an hour from Punta Alta and Bahia Blanca...both decent sized cities.

Good luck to you all.
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Roberto
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Post Number: 557
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 11:30 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Isaac, Bill and others, the thread about argentina student visas has been moved.
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Deby Novitz
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Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 11:48 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I have been reading through this forum. There is lots of good straight information here. I am always amazed at people who try to move to places that they have never spent much time in. I was here 18 times in 4 years before I moved here permanently. I am a very impulsive person, but when I fell in love with Buenos Aires, I knew that this would be a permanent move, so I had to make sure that this was the place for me.

What I have found is that with VERY few exceptions, the ex-pats that are here permanently, with few or no complaints, are those of us that moved here because we loved it here. We came here more than a couple of times before we made our decision. We would live here regardless of the cost of living, if there were no person we came for, we decide to no longer dance tango, etc. The people who have come here because it was cheap, they came on vacation and liked it, they met someone, etc. are the ones I find most unhappy. To change your country is not the same as moving from New York to California. It is a huge change. It is not easy.

On the surface, this is a beautiful city. It is very European in the Capital Federal. (Buenos Aires) Parts of the city are like Rome, some like Paris, others like Madrid or Barcelona. But beyond this, you are in Latin America. The culture is very Italian, with a little German and Spaniard thrown in mixed up with Latin America. Sometimes the combination of cultures is beautiful, sometimes humorous, and sometimes a pain.

You can drink the water, eat the food. (Food is great here, very fresh) Medical care is excellent, at times it seems to not have enough follow up. (that is what happens when you dont have the threat of lawsuits hanging over your head) Things are not always explained, there is a tendency to assume that you know the procedures. The problem is sometimes the person you are dealing with doesn't even know what needs to be done. Stuff gets done when it gets done, and not always done well. I have learned to be extremely patient and mellow.

If you do not speak Spanish, it is not easy to get around. Even in the hospitals there are no translators. Maybe someone who had high school English who might try to help you. You can ask for a translator but they will generally not have one. Here it is a bring your own.

Probably the biggest mistake that people make who come here not speaking the language is that by taking an immersion course they will become fluent in 3 months. When I meet other ex-pats, the area where they suffer the most is not being able to communicate in their daily lives. For many it causes depression, and from what I have seen, is the main reason why people leave after a couple of years. Do not assume that because Buenos Aires is cosmopolitan everyone speaks English here.

I worked in Mexico for 5 years and spoke fairly good Espanol. This is nothing like the Spanish spoken in the Capital Federal. (Buenos Aires) I never had problems in other countries, but here was a challenge and continues to be. If I had not had my foundation in Spanish, I think I would have found it much more difficult to live here.

I also agree with Roberto on becoming legal here. I have my residence visa. I was surprised at how much easier things are by having a DNI. An illegal alien is an illegal alien regardless of what country you are in. You should definitly investigate the ways you can obtain residency. Be advised though, it is not as easy as you think. Argentina also has rules to obtain residency here.

With all things said, I have to say, that I am so accostumed to my Argentine life that I feel like a foreigner in my own country. I have to fight the urge to kiss everyone or to touch people. I experience levels of stress that I never have here. While I miss great sushi and Vietnamese food, Target and Costco, there is nothing that would make me consider moving back to the U.S. For me Argentina is now home.
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Tom Woodson
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Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 49
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 1:00 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

It is a great country and the people for the most part are very friendly.
I moved here because I fell in love with a lady and with Buenos Aires.
I travel back and forth from the US and Argentina often. There is a lot of business that can be done here but it is best to have a payment system that pays in dollars and spends in pesos for obvious reasons.
The community we are developing is in the very early stages. There are so many opportunites here for hard working honest people.

Prices of land are going up. Anyone interested in a $35 million dollar office building in Buenos Aires? There are still some very good deals on land to be had but the prices will go up for very basic reasons. By nature land is finitie in supply with demand growing every second.
In Argentina, purchasing property is an excellent investment and it is easy.

Hasta Luego.
tom
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Robert Gisborn
New member
Username: Bgisborn

Post Number: 6
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 8:19 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

If I may comment on Tom's comment about people taking a three month crash course in Spanish and believing they can actually learn the language in that period of time. This seems a bit insane unless you're aware that many English speakers believe that Spanish is an easy language to learn. In fact, after many have learned hardly more than the rudiments of the Spanish vocabulary and virtually nothing of its grammar they really believe they have a fluent command of the language. When they fail to understand a native Spanish speaker they say it was because the native speaker had a regional dialect or spoke a "version" of Spanish they did not undersand. In fact-and this may surprise native Spanish speakers-the variations in regional Spanish are less than the variations of regional English. The difference between the spoken English of London and New York is greater than the difference between the spoken Spanish of Buenas Aires and Madrid.

Bob
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Deby Novitz
New member
Username: Tangospam

Post Number: 3
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 8:48 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I am not a native speaker of Spanish. I started learning Spanish when I was 14. I worked in Mexico, Colombia, Spain, and Puerto Rico. I can honestly say that the Spanish here is very different in the Capital Federal.

Being from California I understand people from both NYC and London. (Dublin is another story, along with South Africans!) My first trips here were a challenge. The Spanish spoken here is different. Besides the use of the vosotros, the grammar, there is a mixture of lunfardo. This is much different than slang. No other country uses words like "Macanudo", "Chabon", or "Pibe", If someone in Australia uses mate, you know what they mean. But chabon? Add to that an accent that defies the pronunciation of the Spanish speaking world, you have a definite challenge.
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Riyad Anabtawi
Member
Username: Riyada

Post Number: 52
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 9:10 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Man, I had to sweat scrolling down to here!
My take on this one is that the only way to learn any spoken language is to actually live in the country where one wants to learn it, and having to be forced to speak it. And to spend a long time doing that. Period.
If one is a foreigner and wants to learn a new language where one lives, there is no point hanging out with one's own people that speak one's mother tongue.
And forget about language schools, they help a lot, dont mistake me, but the real experience is on the street, just like every learning experience in life.
Trust me on this one, I speak 6 languages and I learned all 6 on the street, so to speak.
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movingtoargentina.typepad.com
Junior Member
Username: Sapphos

Post Number: 34
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 9:34 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Let's not give people the wrong idea though, taking no courses at all to have some sort of base to work from is not advised either. But, there is no substitute for time in another country that's for sure. I realized I started my classes 9 years ago when I moved to Miami and got all the way through preterito, and then had several years without touching it. Went through the classes again and then spent several weeks in Mexico, and that was three years ago. When we moved here, I was able to get some basic stuff understood, but there is no doubt that living here, attempting to speak every day with people, listening to radio, watching TV and movies, etc. has helped me improve a lot in just a few months. Now I'm going to take some more classes to get me on to the next level and then I'll spend time again just using what I learned in everyday language. And Riyad, you're absolutely correct, if you come here and only hang out with other English speakers you won't get anywhere, that's why I have lots of Argentine friends here as well, some of whom speak almost exclusively in Spanish with me.
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 581
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 9:50 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

safety in Buenos Aires
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Emily McDonald
New member
Username: Emily_anne

Post Number: 4
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 6:42 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hey All,

I have a question about secure storage in Buenos Aires. I plan to leave for Bolivia for about two weeks, at which point I will give up my sublet apartment. After Bolivia, I plan to return to Argentina for a couple of days before returning to the US (and will most likely stay in a hostel). However, I don't want to take ALL of my luggage with me to Bolivia (a lot of professional clothes unecessary for hikes), but most importantly, I need a secure place to store my laptop computer!!! I don't want to take it - but I don't know if there is a secure location leave it!

Any suggestions?

Thanks so much!

Emily
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movingtoargentina.typepad.com
Junior Member
Username: Sapphos

Post Number: 35
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 8:17 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Emily, I'm sending you a private message.
Laura
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Paul Ghidossi
New member
Username: Chascomus

Post Number: 3
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 08, 2006 - 4:54 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

To Emily,
I can't really think of a safe place to leave or store your stuff. Your best bet is to find a trustworthy family.
I know you don't know me but I could hold onto something if you need it. I live in the Pilar area, (gated community) and your stuff would be safe in my house.
You can read about who I am and what I do on my site.
Good luck

(Message edited by admin on July 08, 2006)
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Trudy Ann Hart
New member
Username: Trudynew

Post Number: 2
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 6:56 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi: I posted this under 'chocolate cafe' and then thought better of it. I have been reading these interesting postings for two days and decided to join the conversation. I am a teacher k-12, Art/English. I want a change of pace...I am dreaming of a quite, unpolluted, beautiful, (To me that means clean, and abundant with scenic views, and flowering plant life.), place where I can get fresh organic vegetables, clean water, and high speed internet. 'Easy to please', you say?...that's not all I want. I would write and paint by day, dance tango at night and live on $600 american/mo. Am I just dreaming?

Trudy
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larry Rogers
New member
Username: Larryr30

Post Number: 1
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 12:28 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hello,
Some of the first comments I have every post and reading through alot of these other comments I'm sure a portion will be redundant. My question is two fold:

First: I'm leaving for B.A. on Oct. 16th and looking to stay well past my 90 tourist visa...at this time I'm working on getting a visa (work or residency) without having a job. I was recommended to ARCA to help the process of visa procurement, but if I'm not able to get things worked out before I leave what are the chances that things will work out in B.A.

Second: Is there individuals out there (expats or argentinians etc..) that can help with this process and give free advice along with helping and consulting about misc. item.
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Andre Mann
New member
Username: Andre

Post Number: 1
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 4:17 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi,

Interesting and informative posts on this thread.

I'm Canadian and after living in Costa Rica for 3 years and Panama for a year, I've returned to Canada last year only to find out that I had made the right choice in the first place, get away from here.

When in Panama, a friend told me that he had visited Argentina for 3 months and wouldn't hesitate to move there if it wouldn't have been for his Panamanian wife who didn't want to leave her parents behind.

To verify what he told me, here's a few questions I'd like to ask:

Are there areas where the weather is similar to Boquete, Panama (28 to 30C during the day and 16 to 20C at night)?

In both countries, I rented nice appartments in the $200 - $350/month range (In Boquete, I rented a new, fully furnished 2-bedroom flat for $325/month). Will I be able to find something similar in Argentina? Would there be a lease? How many months in advance would I have to pay? Would it be in a secure area?

According to some other posts, you can live in Argentina as a "permanenet tourist" by leaving the country every 3 months, how long do you have to leave for? In Panama, I did the same. Every 3 months I had to go to Costa Rican for 48 hours and return to Panama. (I have permanent residency in Costa Rica but wouldn't want to live there any more).

What's the cost of living (food, transportation, utilities, etc.) like there?

Once you rent a place, how easy is it to get a phone and high-speed (DLS or cable) internet and how expensive is it?

I'm used to living in corrupt countries with a high crime rate (especially Costa rica where I had to carry a gun at all times), how's Argentina compared to Costa Rica?

As a "permanent tourist", can I purchase a vehicle? Can I drive using my Canadian or Costa Rican driver's license or do I need to get one from there? If so, how hard (or easy) is it to get one?

Are the locals pleasant with the foreigners (in Boquete, some locals treated foreigners with animosity)? Is there a "double the price standard" for services for ex-pats?

Any info would be appreciated, I wish to move out of Canada again by the end of November.

Thanks,
Andre

BTW, I do speak Spanish quite fluently
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Riyad Anabtawi
Member
Username: Riyada

Post Number: 69
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 4:41 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Andre
I will chip in what I know from my own experience.
-->you can live in Argentina as a "permanenet tourist" by leaving the country every 3 months, how long do you have to leave for?
..Yes you can... but depending where u decide to live could become expensive to cross the border, for the distance. You need to have your passport stamped exit and can come back again.
--> permanent tourist", can I purchase a vehicle?
..Yes you can .. Need a CDI, which is an id number (like social security #) you can get using 2 witnesses and having an address where u live.
.. You cannot get a gun here being a non resident, and even more difficult to carry one on you. Depending on where u live, crime is high here as of late..
.. Locals are very pleasant, at least in my case, and they mostly are extremely helpful to expats
.. DSL/Hi speed Internet normally is a piece of cake.. Not a brainer, you can set one up as fast as you can in the US.
Hi speed ranges from 50-130 pesos a month.
Hope some one else chips for the missing ends.
Regards
Riyad
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Andre Mann
New member
Username: Andre

Post Number: 2
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 5:27 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks Riyad, I appreciate it.

Andre
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Tom Woodson
Intermediate Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 102
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 5:54 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Maybe I live in the right part of Argentina where crime is very low. In the smaller towns of Buenos Aires province there is no crime except for an occasional lost bicycle and teenagers driving without a license.

I have never been ill treated by an Argentine citizen. I have been told they like Americans. Canadians are probably ok also.
I would say they are among the most friendliest people in the world.

You do not have to have an Argentine drivers license.

It will be difficult for you to find a two bedroom furnished apartment for U$A 325 dollars in the nice areas of the city of Buenos Aries. It shouldn't be difficult in the smaller towns.

You can leave the country every 90 days or you can pay Immigration $100 pesos and get a 90 day extension which gives you a total of 6 continuous months before you have to leave. They go by the date on your passport when you enter and have to leave. it is not exactly 90 days in other words. In the city of Buenos Aires you can take Bucabus across the Rio de la Plata in the morning to Uruguay and come back in the afternoon. round trip is not that expensive, I am going to guess arund U$A70 dollars round trip.

If you carry a gun I am fairly sure you will be arrested.
A foreigner can buy a weapon here but you have to have a passport and a statment from your ATF, I do not know what that is in Canada, that says you have not commited a crime in the last 8 years. There is a requirment that when you leave the country you have to take the gun with you which has a time limit on it. I do not recall what it is. Basically they sell you the weapon to take back to your country with you. It requires fewer documents for a foreigner to buy a weapon here than it does an Argentine citizen.

Panama is within the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn. Tropical. Argentina is has winters that are as harsh as canada in the south and has rain forests in the north west. Buenos Aires province has weather that ranges from North Florida up to Kentucky but without snow. I am from FLorida and as long as I do not go more than a couple hundred kilometers south of Buenos Aires city I am comfortable even in winter.

High speed DSL cable is not available in all parts of the country. I have a friend who lives near General Madriaga who has to use a cell phone because they do not not have telephone lines where he lives. That is not the norm. You can get a satellite dish for communications and internet.

The CDI is something I hear a lot about. I will get one someday. From what I understand you can get them at a bank?
You have to have a passport and something that shows your Argentine address on it. A lease or something like that I would guess. I did not know you had to have two witnesses but I trust Riyad's opinion on that.

There is a degree of corruption here but did you read the latest from Miami where the low income housing authority is getting ready to go to prison. In the last five years they have spent mucho millions and built two houses.

Good luck
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Tom Woodson
Intermediate Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 103
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 5:57 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Here is an article on shopping in Argentina


http://www.agroaustralweb.com.ar/textocomp.asp?id= 463&act=

The web site has a lot of interesting information abut Argentina
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Andre Mann
New member
Username: Andre

Post Number: 3
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 7:19 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Only need to clarify something, I was asking about a gun because it's almost a necessary evil in Costa Rica (especially if you're a foreigner living in the San Jose area), as far as I'm concerned. I had one and I don't want another one, makes you a bit paranoid knowing that you need it for your own safety.

Andre
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Trudy Ann Hart
New member
Username: Trudynew

Post Number: 6
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2006 - 10:34 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Laura, I am waiting for your e-mail.

Also, does anyone know of a room to rent for one month in BA for 250$/mo. I want to go in November or the end of October.
Trudy
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movingtoargentina.typepad.com
Junior Member
Username: Sapphos

Post Number: 43
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 7:07 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Trudy, please see my p.m. to you.
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Sam W. Davis
New member
Username: Samwdavis

Post Number: 1
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 5:08 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I just found this forum... COOL!

I'm supposed to find out this week for sure if my company is relocating me to Cordoba for a couple of years from Texas. It currently looks like a 95% probability. I've been there a couple of times and love it. My wife is from there originally. If we go, we'll probably be moving in mid- to late-October. I have a couple of questions, though I'm sure I'll have many more.

Do U.S. TVs work in Argentina? In other words, if I have a transformer for the power, will the cable have the right kind of connector and feed the proper signal for the TV? What about the flip-side? If I have a U.S. DVD player, can it feed a TV made in Argentina?
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Tom Woodson
Intermediate Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 105
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 9:59 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hey Sam

Answers to your questions

Yes

Yes

As you stated you have to have transformers.

Any other questions for sure let us know


Good luck
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movingtoargentina.typepad.com
Junior Member
Username: Sapphos

Post Number: 44
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 10:55 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"Do U.S. TVs work in Argentina? In other words, if I have a transformer for the power, will the cable have the right kind of connector and feed the proper signal for the TV?"

Watch that you can pick up the proper signal. Argentina is PAL-N and US is NTSC. Some TVs will work there on both signals such as ours we bought from Philips. Otherwise if you don't have the proper video signal you can have trouble seeing it correctly. There are also converters that will convert your video signal, but they are not always the greatest.

" What about the flip-side? If I have a U.S. DVD player, can it feed a TV made in Argentina?"
Yes you can feed your Argentina TV with AMERICAN DVD's but Argentina runs on a different region than the US. You can also pick up a "region free" DVD player which will allow you to easily play all DVDS from any region without problem.
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Tom Woodson
Intermediate Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 106
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 11:57 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I have used two US dvd players here. One was a very cheap one I picked up at Samīs club for less than $40 US. I had no problem showing US dvdīs and rented Argentine dvdīs on it on two different tvīs sold in Argentina.

I have heard about the zone thing but I had no problems with mine.
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Deby Novitz
New member
Username: Tangospam

Post Number: 8
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I bought a DVD player in Rodo for 119 pesos which is less than $40 USD. I play all my DVDs from the US on it. Easier to buy something here than to schlep it all the way from the U.S.
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Sam W. Davis
New member
Username: Samwdavis

Post Number: 2
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 3:11 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Wow, you guys are great... so helpful.

So, what about a VCR player? Can I hook it up to a TV in Argentina with no modifications if I'm playing VHS tapes from the U.S.?
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Tom Woodson
Intermediate Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 107
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 4:05 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

That is a good price on the dvd player. This is the first time I have heard, at least in the past three years, any type of electronic equipment being less expensive in Argentina than the US. Maybe the dvd players are cheaper in the US now also.


The VCR is a different story. The zones come into play here for sure. I tried to play an Argentine video on my US vcr and it was a no show. The vcr hooked up to our Argentine bought tv and played US tapes ok.

I looked for a vcr that would play tapes from both countries but I couldnīt find one

Good luck.
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Sam W. Davis
New member
Username: Samwdavis

Post Number: 3
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 9:39 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks so much for the information. It may have seemed like kind of silly questions for my first posts, but my wife and I are both really concerned about our 3 year old son making the transition, and being able to watch familiar Veggie Tales and educational movies will make all the difference for him. So, we wanted to be sure to have a good plan. You guys are GREAT! Thanks!
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Tom Woodson
Intermediate Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 110
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 10:33 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hey Sam
When you get here sign on to Direct tv and you will get the programs you want in the language you want.
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Lamar Starling
New member
Username: Lamar

Post Number: 1
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Sunday, August 20, 2006 - 10:28 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hello.

Can someone give advice on employment in Buenos Aires.

I am a business owner and my wife is a Registered Nurse.

What are the basic rules, etc. for employment.

Thanks
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Apartmentsba.com
Member
Username: Saint

Post Number: 77
Registered: 5-2005


Posted on Sunday, August 20, 2006 - 10:36 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Lamar,

As the owner of 3 corporations in Argentina (soon to be 4) I can tell you that the system here is extremely complex. The tax system here is also very complex. You can't legally work in Argentina unless you have some type of working visa. It's VERY difficult to make money here so before you come, you should really have a game plan. I've seen most foreigners go back to the USA, UK, Europe because they couldn't make enough money here.

Unless you can work from the internet or working for a multi-national company where you are making foreign currency (u$s , euros, Sterling) I don't recommend trying to work here unless you have some solid business plan.

If the tax structure and finding a job werern't so difficult. Once you set up a company, the taxes you pay for having employees is very high.

Good luck.
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Lamar Starling
New member
Username: Lamar

Post Number: 2
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Sunday, August 20, 2006 - 10:43 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thank you.
What about nursing? Do you know if the specialty is needed?
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Apartmentsba.com
Member
Username: Saint

Post Number: 78
Registered: 5-2005


Posted on Sunday, August 20, 2006 - 11:10 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

There are lots of nurses and doctors here in Buenos Aires. Your wife might be able to find a job. I'm not sure what her specialty is but keep in mind that many locals are highly educated. There is no reason someone is going to pay a foreigner more just because they are a foreigner. Doctors here don't make so much money so you can expect nurses make very little as well.

My advice probably would be to target the higher end private schools to see if they might have any needs but even those places will most likely hire fully bilingual well educated locals. I know several locals/friends that did their training in the USA. My personal physician did his residency in the USA.

BA is a great place but we well prepared before you come down if you plan on making money. Good luck.
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Bill Howard
New member
Username: Veritas01

Post Number: 6
Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Sunday, August 20, 2006 - 6:27 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I have a basic question. At this moment in time how much monthly income, expressed in US Dollars, is needed to live comfortably in Argentina? At this point between pensions, social security and, if needed, withdrawals from a 401K I would be in the 5-6k per month...USD. Or roughly 15-18k pesos. Again if I liquidated some assets and withdrew from savings I could up it to as much as 8k USD per month 24k pesos. What type of a lifestyle would I have? After rent, utilities, health care, car upkeep and insurance, food, and the other basics would I have enough to travel extensively?
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Riyad Anabtawi
Member
Username: Riyada

Post Number: 70
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Sunday, August 20, 2006 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Bill
On 24K pesos a month here, you are KING.
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Tom Woodson
Intermediate Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 114
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 10:56 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

For those who do not know what k is, it is a symbol for thousand.
24k or 24 thousand($24000.00) pesos is a lot of money.

Since the government is negotiating to raise the minimum wage from $600 to $850 pesos a month, do the math.

You will be able to live very well on that much money. The price of food is much less than in the states. Labor costs are less, housing is less, fuel is less, most everything is less expensive with the exception of electronics, tvs, computers and such.
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D MUNGAY
New member
Username: Crazygaucho

Post Number: 4
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 2:02 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

it wiil be very hard to spend 24000 pesos here if you not married to my wife!!!! just kidding. exept for electronics I think we could say that everything else will cost you in pesos the same amount that will cost in dollars in the USA in other words about a third ( since 1usd=3 pesos) so 24000 pesos per month = a lot of dought
dan
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 711
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Monday, September 18, 2006 - 9:33 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Bill, I have moved the job/work topic here
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Arial Santos
New member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, October 23, 2006 - 7:55 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Greetings to all. Enjoyed reading the posts on this thread and appreciate all the interesting information. Also thanks to Michael Koh who has kindly responded to my emails before I registered.

I have a total of about 9 months in Bariloche, with lots of personal research (and a lot of mistakes under my belt) and though my experience is limited by comparison, I consider it a privilege to be of any help that I can.

Here is a warning for those of you flying to Argentina. On my last trip down I flew Avianca because it was the best price I found. $349.00 one way. I buy one-way tickets for various reasons.

At the desk Avianca told me rules had changed in AR and I would not be allowed into AR without an exit ticket and so they would not allow me to board the plane unless I bought a return ticket (price $1200). Other passengers were told that also and left the counter. I have no idea what they did. My ticket was nonrefundable if I did not use it that day. I ended up buying the return ticket, VERY suspicious that they were lying. But how could I know if something had changed???

To make it brief, they were lying and I will leave it at that without telling you the ridiculous hassle with them after that. I was successful but only through my credit card company and by proving through immigration that the info was completely fraudulent. The immigration official in Bariloche told us that he had heard "some airlines" were doing that.

So be forewarned about how you will handle this. I prefer Lan airlines though others may be just as good. So far their dealings with us have been completely honest. One of their people also told us Avianca is doing this from the head office to generate more revenue. Others may be doing it also.
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Eric Baeder
New member
Username: Doggieboy

Post Number: 7
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 1:32 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Arial:

What Avianca was trying to do was terrible. I find it very disturbing that someone would try to do that. Unfortunately I get the sense that that type of behavior isn't that unusual in Argentina and it sounds like there isn't much of a downside for them if they get caught. Which doesn't discourage that kind of action.

I hope you like Bariloche. I have some questions that I would like to ask you about it sometime.

Eric

(Message edited by admin on October 24, 2006)
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larry Rogers
New member
Username: Larryr30

Post Number: 2
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Friday, October 27, 2006 - 4:45 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thought I would post a comment about, seeing that I'm American, watching a Texas Game here in BA. I have obviously watched NFL, but looking for a bar that I don't know about were one might meet or see some TX exes? Not sure? I'm living in Alto Palermo and would like to get something together if anyone is interested>
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larry Rogers
New member
Username: Larryr30

Post Number: 3
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Friday, October 27, 2006 - 5:14 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

In addition to my last e-mail if anyone wants to get together and have a beer and is or not from here let me know....looking to make business connections in the city and else were. This is not a proposal for some kind of love connection but a requested for business relationships and connections to help my pursiut of living in BA alittle bit more easy.
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Sam W. Davis
New member
Username: Samwdavis

Post Number: 5
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Friday, October 27, 2006 - 5:26 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I'm in the process of relocating (from Texas) to Cordoba but just arrived in Buenos Aires yesterday and staying in in-laws in Belgrano. Unfortunately, I will just be here through the weekend and flying on to Cordoba on Monday.
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larry Rogers
New member
Username: Larryr30

Post Number: 4
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Friday, October 27, 2006 - 5:41 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Well if you find some time and would like to grab a beer and kill the in-law thing let me know. Glad to hear that your from Texas (TX Exes or no).
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 816
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Friday, October 27, 2006 - 6:52 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Larry, would you be interested on this or is it better to keep it private?
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Michelle Bienias
New member
Username: Michelleb

Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Wednesday, November 01, 2006 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Just discovered this forum tonight before heading off to bed ... three hours later and I'm still here, lol. Great stuff, and very patient and helpful contributers!

A bit of background: I am a female in my late 30s from Toronto, Canada, currently in Florence, Italy for three months, who would like to live in BA for three months starting this Jan. I'm single and will be travelling with my small dog. I work for a European company, via Internet, so earning an income isn't a problem while there. I'm fond of big city amenities, such as large choice of restaurants, bars, gymns, cinema, salons, etc. I speak no Spanish, or any language other than English for that matter, and am unlikely to have the time to learn much before I arrive.

1. What neighbourhood would you recommend for an apartment rental? I'd like something with lots of cafes and stores nearby but not club-oriented (i.e. really noisy at night), and a park or grass for my dog. I'd prefer a 2bdrm place with a terrace, or at least a balcony with a view, nicely furnished, with all amenities, etc, including hi-speed Internet. Could I get all this for under $1500 USD per month? Any recommendations on where I should look? I went through the vrbo website and the rentals all seemed much more expensive than what was suggested on this forum.

2. Why type of precautions do I need to take as a single female, other than those in any big city? And would it be easy to meet other English-speakers in a similar situation?

3. Are small dogs allowed in restaurants, shops, etc? What about renting an apartment - are pets readily accepted? (In Florence, Bella is welcomed just about everywhere - except museums and churches, of course, and it's such a refreshing change from Toronto.)

4. Finally, is it feasible to spend three months in BA without any Spanish? Will my lack of language make things too difficult to enjoy the experience or are there enough English speakers that I can get by in day-to-day life?

Thanks in advance!

Michelle
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Tom
Advanced Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 262
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Wednesday, November 01, 2006 - 10:34 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

hello and welcome Michelle
I think you will have a great and memorable visit to the Paris of South America. And the natives are a lot friendlier than the other Paris.

The language barrier will not slow you down. Learn to use your hands and don't be afraid to be laughed with. English is a second language to a lot of the locals and there are a lot of English speaking visitors.

Call a taxi when you go anywhere unless you want to walk and that will be ok also except late at night or down deserted streets. As you say, don't do things you would not do in any other big city. Taxi fairs are very cheap. It is around 50 pesos from the international airport to downtown Buenos Aires, a trip that takes about 45 minutes to an hour depending on traffic.

There are lots of parks in Buenos Aires Capital Federal and Recoleta, two of my favorite areas and lots of others which you will learn about here from others I am sure.

The cost of a nice apartment should be within the budget you are speaking of. The high speed internet is not available in all apartments.

the puppy may be a problem with restaurants, museums, grocery stores and such. In the US she would not be allowed in any that I know of.

Argentina is a third world country in some sense of the words but it is 97% European either of first generation or ancestry. They go out of their way to be helpful.

There is a nice Irish pub near Puerto Madero where the young people love to talk to English speaking people, I will look in my notes and find out the name for you. I have met some really fun people there.

again, welcome
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Tom
Advanced Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 263
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Wednesday, November 01, 2006 - 10:50 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Kilkenny Pub is the name of the place I was telling you about. It is a few blocks away from Puerto Maderio.

Many of the movies are in English with Spanish sub titles.
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Chad Broadus
New member
Username: Broadusc

Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 2:31 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I'm considering taking a job in BA and wanted to ask a few questions to help solidify my thinking.

The position will pay $1500 US Dollars per month. It's a US company with a BA office.

I have a wife and two small children.

Can I live well on that kind of money?
Where are the family friendly neighborhoods?
Should I get a DNI?
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movingtoargentina.typepad.com
Junior Member
Username: Sapphos

Post Number: 48
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 6:36 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Michelle, I just sent you a private message, but here are some general answers to your questions as well.

For your Spanish, don't worry too much about it. Yes it's better to have some basics, but at the same time you can always get a tutor to work with in your spare time. Do you speak Italian or French? If you do then that will help you pick up your Spanish as well.

You can't take your dog to the banks and probably not museums either, but cafes and many restaurants will accomodate you. It really depends upon how big he/she is. What breed is it?

Cautions will be things like - taking radio taxis, living in a building with a doorman 24 hours or security 24 hours. Not inviting people into your apartment until you feel very comfortable with them. Don't put your purse on your chair back or at your feet, always keep on your lap. Walk with your purse on the side away from the street. Don't tell people your address unless it's for something like delivery. Really a lot of common sense things for a big city. And of course trusting your intuition if you feel at all unsafe.

I have an American friend here who just back from a trek in Peru. She's done tons of stuff by herself and has made plenty of friends. When she got here, she really didn't speak any Spanish and she's done just fine, but she did take Spanish classes in teh beginning and now has a private tutor. You'll make friends just fine I think. And, if you want to email me privately to chat more, don't hesitate at movingtoargentina@gmail.com
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movingtoargentina.typepad.com
Junior Member
Username: Sapphos

Post Number: 49
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 6:40 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Chad,
I'm curious if you could provide a little more information. Is your company paying separately for your rent or are you responsible for it. Will they provide you with a guarantia for your rent? I'm assuming they're taking care of all visa paperwork - your DNI would be part of that visa package.
Are they paying for your relocation or is that up to you?

Do you want to live in the city or the suburbs? How old are your kids? Will company contribute for school for them or are you responsible for that as well.

I'm asking you these questions because it will make a huge difference in whether you can get by on 1500 a month or not.
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Sam W. Davis
New member
Username: Samwdavis

Post Number: 7
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 7:39 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Chad,

Since you asked if you could live "well", I think it would help to understand your perspective. The question is live "well" compared to what, because your level of expectation has a major bearing on the question. For example, if you are currently in the U.S. with a job making $30K or more and thinking that you may come to Argentina and live better on $18K, I'd say don't even consider it.
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Apartmentsba.com
Intermediate Member
Username: Saint

Post Number: 118
Registered: 5-2005


Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 8:25 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I would say NO you can't live well for only u$s 1,500 per month if you have a wife and two kids. That is only 4,500 pesos per month. Definitely "living well" is all relative but for most American's ideas of "living well" you certainly can't do it on only u$s 1,500 per month with a wife and 2 kids.

Rents here for foreigners are not cheap. You have to ask yourself things like is your company going to co-sign for you to rent an apartment? Most rents require a guarantor that will co-sign in case you stop paying. Rents in many good neighborhoods where you would want to be with your wife and 2 kids are going up and will continue to go up. Then you have the cost of living. Groceries are cheap here compared to the USA but still, with a wife and two kids things will add up.

Where will your kids go to school? Private schools aren't too cheap here. Certainly with u$s 1,500 per month you won't have enough to pay for private school. Sapphos pointed out excellent questions.

You asked, should I get a DNI? Actually you MUST have a DNI to work here in Argentina so find out if your employer will pay the cost for it. Many don't and you have to shoulder that cost. Also, remember that you need to have things like medical insurance in place if you are moving here. People sometimes lose common sense (I'm not saying you....just many that I have met). Even if you have coverage in the USA, you want good coverage here in case something happens.

Really research things before you decide to take the job. Also, do you have a big savings built up? Or emergency fund? You should if you are moving here. Best of luck to you.
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Michelle Bienias
New member
Username: Michelleb

Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 9:16 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thank you Tom and Sapphos for your responses!

Yes, I'd been considering staying in Paris (of the north) but the rentals are ridiculously expensive, and small, so I was delighted to learn about BA, it sounds like just the spot I was looking for.

I'm been unable to find anything on the Internet about dogs in BA, other than the famous dog-walkers, so it's helpful to know she'll be accepted in restaurants and cafes (she's a miniature poodle, BTW, so quite small at about 12lbs).

Sapphos, your comment about getting an apartment with a doorman is appreciated as I wouldn't have thought to look for that. I guess I'll have to do some research on the various neighborhoods - so far Recoletta and Hollywood or Soho sound like the best bets.
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 819
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 7:09 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Michelle, adding just a bit more... There are some rules for dogs doing their thing on the sidewalks -rarely enforced-, so best is always to walk your dog to a park (there are plenty).

Chad, some friends planning to move from Miami to BA (they are argentines) came up with a figure of usd $3000/month for living comfortably for a family of four. When they worked out this budget they took into account just about everything, relatively good schooling, vacations, some spare change for fun, plenty of food and health coverage. All based on already owning an apartment and a car. I was surprised at such high budget since not too many people are probably making $9500 pesos a month. Will your employer be paying any taxes anywhere? If he is saving money on this perhaps he can compensate you better. An american based company paying a family of 4 residing in Argentina usd $1500/month makes me have a knot in my stomach...
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Michelle Bienias
New member
Username: Michelleb

Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 7:23 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks Roberto. I always pick up after my dog, even in Florence where most other people don't. Well trained from Toronto, I guess.

I'm having trouble muddling through all the various neighbourhoods and could really use some advice on what areas to narrow down in my search. I realize it's hard to advise someone without any idea about her likes and preference, etc., so I will put it this way: If I were living in NYC it would probably be in Greenwich Village or the Upper East Side (wildly divergent areas, I know), or something like the Latin Quarter in Paris.

It seems that the Recoleta or Palermo, or even Congresso would be the best bets but I'm suffering from information overload and would be happy with some guidance. Something with a great neighbourhood feel, lots of shops, cafes, groceries, etc. and older (more historical) apartment buildings.

Oh, and what is the best method to reserve an apartment - do they take credit cards or am I expected to wire a deposit (is that safe?).

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
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movingtoargentina.typepad.com
Junior Member
Username: Sapphos

Post Number: 50
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 8:05 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Chad, the questions I posted earlier were to really make you consider the job carefully and what they are actually offering you. In reality, 1500 a month will be tight. We live in a house in the suburbs. We didn't have a guarantee so we had to shell out a years rent in advance. Although we live in an excellent neighborhood, we got a big break on our rent because the house was older and wasn't in the condition that most expats in our area would accept. We still are paying 1600 a month US. Factor in: neighborhood security which just went up 20% on us, electric, water, ABL taxes (we pay 100 US per month for those), our cable and internet are about 70 per month US. And we don't live particulary extravagently.
you can find things cheaper than what we have of course, but when you factor in expenses. I'll give you some more examples.
We have private health care insurance...Apartmentsba is correct in saying you don't want to be here without it, especially with kids. For my husband and I, we pay around 530 pesos per month and it also is going up...by 22.9 % in January. when our child is born in December it will add another 30 pesos or so. For private health care insurance here, certainly it kicks butt compared to the U.S.
Private schooling is definatately cheaper if you can get into certain schools. Lincoln where most American expats send their kids is quite expensive, but I just met a couple who moved from California and their kids were in a Waldorf school there and they enrolled them in one here, they told me that they just paid 1/10 of what they paid in the States, as a matter of fact their one year of rent at 2600 US was the cost of their school in the States.

I guess my point is, on 1500 it's going to be tight. yes some things are less expensive here, but it depends upon what your lifestyle is and with two kids you'll want them in a private school. I would say that Robert's estimation of 3000 a month US is pretty on the money.

and for sure if your company is requiring you to take care of paying for your visa yourself, I would definately make sure they will have that job for you once you're here. I've heard some horror stories about people who got stuck with a big bill when things didn't work out.

I think that we've all posted should give you a pretty good idea of what to expect.
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 821
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 11:18 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Michelle, for a hip place like the village look into "Las Canitas" or certain *small* areas of Palermo (Plaza Freud) or Belgrano (the area around/behind Selquet). Not La Recoleta and definitely not Congreso. I haven't been in this area for a while but there could be some cool spots on the eastern part of Puerto Madero, all new construction... but I am not sure. If you dig enough, you will find exactly what you want. The city is really large and there is something for every taste, and most corners will have that neighborhood feeling.
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larry Rogers
New member
Username: Larryr30

Post Number: 13
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Sunday, November 05, 2006 - 11:53 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Michelle,
Don't know if you have a solid answer already, but I'm an expat living in Alto Palermo right off of Santa Fe and Vidt. The area is really nice and very friendly, as 99% of all argentinos, its got that neighborhood feel and would be, in my opinion, the closest to the Upper East Side of NYC. Also, it would be my guess that you like to shop and Sante Fe is were you want to be; Charcas between Ortiz and Alvear are some of the best places to eat in the area...thats in opinion of course. Also with the location of Alto Palermo you are not but just alittle walk to Recoleta, which is similar to the Upper West side of NYC..if you take away the tourist bars and restaurants next to the cemetery.

Good luck
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Michelle Bienias
New member
Username: Michelleb

Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Sunday, November 05, 2006 - 12:45 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Roberto and Larry, thanks for your suggestions, they're most helpful. Now I just have to decide on an apartment within one of those areas. I'm planning on staying there for 3 months but am wondering if I should only book an apartment for 4 or 6 weeks, just so I can check out my options once I'm there? The downside is that it'll be high season and I might find myself without accommodation halfway through my visit. Any thoughts?

Also, is anyone on the list from Canada? I'm wondering if it's easy to use Canadian ATM cards down there. And how would I transfer dollars once I'm down there, if I needed to pay for an apartment for example? Would a local bank to that for me through my Cdn bank?
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larry Rogers
New member
Username: Larryr30

Post Number: 14
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Sunday, November 05, 2006 - 1:22 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Michelle,
I'm sure that Roberto will chim in when he has a moment or my not be online today...not sure. The ATM cards, on the back, will have a Cirrus, Plus or Linkplus symbol (i.e. for american cards), check to see if this is correct. If so, you can use that here to pulse (get) money from the Cash Machines that are labeled Banelco or Link. I'm not Canadian, just have had alot of experience with this bank thing in the past couple of weeks.

For the second part of your question, I suggest to bring atleast 1000 Canadian or alittle more somewhere on your person. This will enable you to immediately book a place without having to run around, and do you speak spanish? Most tellers, in my experience, do not speak alot of english; could be hard to get what you need.

Now, you can take you ATM card inside and they can directly pull the amount needed off the card by inputing the accout number. This would be needed if a large amount was in account.

Hope this helps, sorry I'm not Canadian!

P.s. I would atleast book a place for a month, so that you have a place to stay...I find that it's pretty easy to find a place, but you don't want to do it right when you get here.
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movingtoargentina.typepad.com
Member
Username: Sapphos

Post Number: 51
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Sunday, November 05, 2006 - 2:18 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Michelle,
I would highly suggest you take your apartment for your three month stay at once. You are coming at the high season and with a dog no less. Apartments are already at a premium starting in December. You don't want to be left trying to find something in a hurry.

Remember to notify your bank that you'll be in Buenos Aires so they don't freeze your accounts. I'm not sure which bank you're using but unless it's a small obscure bank you should be fine if you have the links on the bank. It's important to realize the banks here have nothing to do with their international members ie. HSBC, Citibank. They will not recognize your accounts here. You will have difficulty having money transferred here - allyou have to do is read old posts and you will see that.

The best is to bring the money with you. I'm not sure who you're renting from but most apartment rentals only take a reservation through the internet and require the rest in cash and usually in US dollars or sometimes they accept Euros. Unless you're heading back to Canada I would suggest you bring Euros or better still bring dollars. There are limits here as to how much you can take out per day...a few banks will allow up to 1000 dollars or 3000 pesos but it's hard to find them, normally you're limited to just a few hundred a day and if you are required to pay for an apartment for three months you're looking at several days to get what you want. And I wouldn't bother with AMEX traveler's checks either, they're usually a nightmare to deal with here.

Both Las Canitas, which is near parks, restaurants, shoppig, and the area around Charcas that Larry mentioned are nice. Around Charcas you have a center meridian with some grass that should be ok for you to walk your dog. Be careful near Paraguay and Scalabrini Ortiz as those streets are very noisy especially Paraguay because it's a major bus route.

good luck
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 829
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Sunday, November 05, 2006 - 4:19 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Transfering funds to Argentina
Real estate in Argentina

Michelle, look here...

(Message edited by admin on November 05, 2006)
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Robert Gisborn
New member
Username: Bgisborn

Post Number: 12
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Monday, November 06, 2006 - 8:45 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I hope this doesn't get anyone angry with me, but does anyone have any comment on the contents of these ARGENTINE links?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/spanish/specials/2006/inseguridad_argentina/

http://www.rosarionet.com.ar/rnet/internacionales/notas.vsp?nid=30695

These are Argentine sources or are attributed to the people who live in Argentina.

Bob

(Message edited by admin on November 06, 2006)
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 834
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Monday, November 06, 2006 - 10:58 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Bob, no argentine can get upset about the links you posted unless that person lives in denial. Actually, this has been an issue for a long, long time and has been discussed here in more than one ocassion. A member of the forum -Paul Ghidossi- has been the subject of several robberies (or a close relative).
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larry Rogers
New member
Username: Larryr30

Post Number: 16
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2006 - 12:46 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

As stated before I'm clearly an expat living here, just wanted to give alittle advice on getting emergency credit cards.

Roberto, if this needs to be moved than that's o.k., wasn't sure where to post!

A little while back I had lost my credit card and had a hard time replacing it due to the " not calling 1-800 #'s". Below is a number that you can call for the Bank of America (since alot of "US" Americans use BOA) collect. The point of this post is to inform you that if you don't have internet access and didn't know that you can go to a Locutorio (internet cafe) than this number would be rather hard to come by.

First, this is to cancel your account at BOA, so dial 0800-555-4288, then computerized operator will pick up and ask for the second number needed, dail 800-432-1000. Once cancelled than, you will need a replacement card. This can be achieved by the following (this is any VISA, debit or credit).

0800-666-0171, that gets you right in touch with a Visa representive.

Best of Luck...and I love this forum!
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larry Rogers
Junior Member
Username: Larryr30

Post Number: 26
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 5:51 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Well, I figured I would post a request for anyone out there that might know of someone who lives in Bariloche (or if you do). I'm looking for a place to live...kind of mom and pop thing or something small, holds 2 people; i have exploited most resources here and by the talk of it, it pretty hard to find a place!

Thanks
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Robert Gisborn
New member
Username: Rgisborn

Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2008 - 5:36 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

When reading the Argentinian news services online I notice very little news coming from or about Bahia Blanca. Given the size and importance of this city that strikes me as unusual. Possibly Bahia Blanca is just a quiet place. Has anyone had any experience living and staying in Bahia Blanca? Apparently, the only time this city is mentioned is when The NBA signs another basketball player. I take it that this city has a professional basketball player factory. Otherwise, is it a good place for a long stay for someone who wants to practice Spanish? Costs?

Bob
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1773
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2008 - 2:15 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Robert, welcome! I think so. It is not a main vacation spot so locals do not visit BB much. However, it is very close to quite areas and beaches so it makes for a comfortable and relaxed place. The city of Buenos Aires as well as some of the most important inland cities consume people's attention. BB is probably far cheaper than the BA. Among locals it may have the stigma of all small towns (everyone knows everything about everyone else) but as a foreigner you will not notice this.
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Bill Howard
Junior Member
Username: Veritas01

Post Number: 49
Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2008 - 3:04 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I am very familiar with Bahia Blanca. My wife who is Argentine was born and raised in Punta Alta which is about 20 minutes outside of Bahia Blanca. Bahia is a very nice city. I plan to retire to Argentina in 3-5 years and we are leaning towards Bahia Blanca. It is a decent sized city. Good infrastructure. Lots of shopping downtown and in areas outside of the downtown area (shopping malls, Walmart, Movieplex, etc.). Nice parks. University town. A few large schools are located there. I don't have specific experience with medical care in Bahia but if you have insurance or money to pay for care it is excellent anywhere in Argentina. Public health care is not so good. As you mention they have good basketball teams and a so so soccer team (Olimpio). La Nueva Provincia is the daily newspaper. Some very good restaurants. I think the prices there are mesaurabley less than in BA. It is also a port city. Lots of grain and meat and hides get exported through the port. For being on the water there is not much in the way of beaches. Most people in Bahia Blanca go to Monte Hermoso..a small but very nice beach resort about an hour or so from the city or further up the coast to Nechochea or Mar del Plata. It has an airport. I have flown in and out many times to and from BA. It has a new bus station. I feel far safer walking around Bahia than I do in Buenos Aires. Though you always have to exercise a bit of caution and common sense. The weather is not too bad. Winters can get a little nippy but nothing like in the northern US or northern Europe. I was there this past July & August which was pretty mild. Temps in the 50's most days.

The people are friendly. As is all of Argentina the women are beautiful. I speak passable basic Spanish and the people there appreciate my efforts and help me out with their English when they speak it. I like the city. You should be able to practice your Spanish and costs should be reasonable. You can fly into BA then bus it to Bahia ...about an 8 hour bus ride. There are some cheap hotels in the city....I am guessing you can get a simple room for around 30 USD a day including breakfast. If you were doing an extended stay you could probably negotiate that down and paying by cash even lower. Eating will run you another 20-30 dollars a day depending on your tastes and budget. The buses (collectivos) are good but you need to figure it out first. Taxis are available and still cheap. That's about it....please ask any questions. If I cant answer them I will ask my wife.
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Robert Gisborn
New member
Username: Rgisborn

Post Number: 3
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 3:57 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks Bill, you've given me a wealth of direct knowledge and experience information. I'm going to need direct conversational experience with Spanish and Bahia Blanca sounds like a quiet affordable and secure city to do that. All the pictures I've seen of the city are impressive and the NBA players we've farmed from there are very well liked by the fans in the US. They're friendly to the fans and unselfish on the court. This speaks well for the people of Bahia Blanca. As for tourists: I'd just as soon be in a place they are not.
To judge medical care you can't look at the superficial physical appearance of a facility or how friendly the care professionals are or even how full the waiting rooms are. Only raw statistics tell you the truth, survival rate for a transplant for example. There is no better care for a single room than for a ward-in fact- it's not as good. As a rule, public medical facilities have better stats than private facilities. They may not be comfortable and they may let you scream a bit longer but they're more likely to get you out alive and better than when you came in.
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Bill Howard
Junior Member
Username: Veritas01

Post Number: 50
Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 7:44 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I have been told that for trauma care and truly life threatening emergencies the public care hospitals are very good because they have the experience with this type of treatment. For well care and non-critical care or recuperation after a trauma you are far better off in a private hospital.

I think you will like Bahia Blanca. Nice size town. I know one of the universities. The Catholic one...John the 23rd...if you can believe that...it is an Instituto Superior...has an excellent english language department. So they are a source of English speakers. You may wish to contact them to see if you can get a Spanish tutor.

If you want to practice before you go subscribe to Telefe on Jumptv.com. I think we pay 9.95 per month. You can see it over your computer or hook up you computer to a TV. It is Argentine televsion. News, soap operas. game shows. It will give you a sense of the language, the rythym and cadence. I also would consider buying a good speaking pocket translator. I use one all the time to find the right verb or noun I need.

You will be amazed how quickly your spanish improves. And people are anxious to help. I use Spanish, English, pantomine, charades, facial expression and sound effects. I get by very well even though my Argentine wife is apalled.

You also might want to join ICQ...online chat. Create your ID...then search for Bahia Blanca. The age and gender you are friendly with. Search for english speakers. You will be presented with a list. You can check out their interests. Then you can send a message to several..saying you are condiering visiting there...strike up a friendship and have someone in the city you know before you arrive. It works. That is how I met my wife. Send a lot of messages. You will only get a few responses. It is the law of large numbers.

Again good luck,
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Robert Gisborn
New member
Username: Rgisborn

Post Number: 4
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 11:47 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks Bill, but my intention is to stay away from any English speakers. They just confuse me when they switch to English. I read Spanish quite well and and I can understand well spoken standard Spanish. I have trouble understanding Argentine speakers-by the way, I do watch the telefe movies as well as 6 other Spanish channels, CNN en espanol etc. I absolutely do not want a Spanish teacher unless they speak only Spanish. If a town is filled with too many frustrated English speakers, I'll stay clear of it. I speak German but when I was in Germany learning the language, the Germans would constantly try to correct me in English. That is frustrating and useless (it's real hip to speak English in Europe). I had to find a small town, Trier, where fewer people knew English. I ended learning to speak fluently in beer halls. I regularly read Clarin whose reporters cannot be accused of seeing the world through rose colored glasses-but despite their hunger for trouble and blood, it is a very good newspaper. I just started reading lanueva.com.ar-good newspaper also.
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Arial
Advanced Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 282
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 5:12 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Robert and welcome to the forum. Your emails about learning castellano are making me laugh. I know what you mean. Here is what I find in Argentina. First, people are about as sweet as you would find anywhere. They want to help you. But if they speak English, many are delighted to have an English speaker they can practice on. So while I am trying to practice castellano with them, they want to practice English with me. Sometimes it ends up with me speaking castellano to them and them responding in English to me! Hahahahahaha!

But I love it. However, I have accumulated a lot of vocabulary but often I can't understand the language when they speak it, even though I know the words. I need to practice escuchen castillano but they have other ideas. I think that living there all the time probably will fix that. Argentines are pretty easy. Be glad you are not going to Chile. When they speak it sounds to me like they lisp! I love the Argentine castellano. I hear that other places are more "correct" to learn but I prefer the lilt of the language in Argentina. It is akin to liking the southern accent (which I do) as compared to the Bronx!
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Arial
Advanced Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 283
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 6:51 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hello all, I am trying to catch up on this thread. I have not read it all but still decided to make two comments.

First comment: Argentina culture is a different world. It is not easy when you are used to a completely different set of rules. Some of the differences are great and hearken back to the U.S. at an earlier time. Others not so good. After four years I am just starting to get it. So just reading this you will know what it took me several years to learn!

Talking with my attorney's assistant and a friend in Argentina this March I asked "How do you deal with the corruption here?" Not an eyelash batted. One of them said, "We actually like it this way. In Argentina you can do almost anything. You just have to find the way." So this is what you will need to adjust to in Argentina.

Second comment: I have lived in Central Florida for a time now due to illness in the family. It is a nice area on the coast. I love fresh air but at night I have to keep my windows closed up tight and securely locked. The sliding glass doors have thick dowells placed strategically.

Know why? Someone might take off the screen and climb in! Or pry open the glass doors and rob me--or worse.

In Latin America security issues are right up front. We have fencing, barb wire, bars on the windows. But in Argentina I can open the windows and let that fresh breeze flow through--even in the huge metropolis of Buenos Aires--if I feel like it. I like the bars on my windows and the barb wire much better than the battened down windows of Central Florida.

I don't like everything about Argentina. Intelligent management with no corruption at any level would be preferred. But some things that discourage some people just might have a bright side. Much of it lies in personal perception. People in Florida FEEL more secure when they see no bars. But it is only perception.

Although I present another viewpoint, things written on this forum should be considered very seriously.
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Living in Patagonia
Junior Member
Username: Soulskier

Post Number: 36
Registered: 9-2008
Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 8:45 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

If you can accept and laugh and Argentina's shortcomings, and appreciate is virtues, you can live a very happy life in Argentina.
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Robert Gisborn
New member
Username: Rgisborn

Post Number: 5
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 11:35 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Arial, yes we all have accents and I hope I did not imply the people of Argentina speak any less "correct" Spanish than the Castilian speaker in Spain. But I need familiarization with the accent and Argentine idioms. Yes, all over the world one finds people who want to practice English on an English speaker but that is almost exclusively a practice of the younger generation. Older speakers either have full command of the language or have no particular desire to learn it. Also, in general, the language of the younger speaker lacks a sophistication that I don't want to emulate. "Wow awesome man, awesome." probably has a Spanish equivalent. If an older adult spoke like that people would think he was batty or a Republican Vice Presidential candidate.
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Arial
Advanced Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 284
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 1:24 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

hahahahahaha! Right!

I didn't read any negative implication in what you wrote.

I think most Argentines, at least in Buenos Aires and Bariloche, speak very clear, proper castillano. We might call it high class (anyone please feel free to correct me, that's how it seems to me.) So if you like the Argentina accent, it is a good place to learn. It is my choice!
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Living in Patagonia
Junior Member
Username: Soulskier

Post Number: 37
Registered: 9-2008
Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 5:49 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Robert, hot diggity dog! You betcha!
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Bill Howard
Member
Username: Veritas01

Post Number: 53
Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 2:04 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Arial...I find your comments interesting. I have visited Argentina on several occasions though I have not lived there for any extended period of time. It has always been my impression that petty crimes, break-ins (house and cars), snatch and grab thefts, pickpockets, etc. were epidemic in Argentina. Everywhere I go in Argentina things are locked up tighter than a drum. My wife comes from a small town in southern BA province (Punta Alta). Many of the walls that surround interior courtyards there are topped with embedded broken glass or covered with barbed wire. If you go out very early in the morning you notice that the only cars that were left on the street overnight are old and broken down. All the cars of any values are generally in garages. My father in-law (Argentine) tells me that people are always watching for someone to let their guard down. In a country where millions have little or nothing...everything has value. He triple locks his doors and uses an alarm system. He also has a gun in his bedroom. A lot of the shops keep their doors locked. You have to knock or ring the bell and the shop keeper gives you the once over before the door gets unlocked.

I once had a young woman remis driver (Ana Luna). She had lived in Boca Raton for a few years then moved back to Argentina. She said the main issue for her was the lack of personal and property security in Argentina. She is always worrying about thefts and worse. I have heard the same thing from many ex-pat Argentines living here in the USA. They are always considering moving back but they worry about the constant pressure of securing your personal saftey and property.

I am thrilled that your experience has been different and I know parts of Florida are worse than 3rd world countries in terms of personal safety. However, I think Argentina as a whole is very prone to petty theft. I dont think anywhere in the world is 100% safe but parts of the USA still allow you to sleep with your window open...in Argentina I think that is the exception rather than the rule.
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Robert Gisborn
New member
Username: Rgisborn

Post Number: 6
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 3:38 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Bill, virtually all of these petty and violent robberies are committed by young males who own little and do not support families. they are the product of a Catholic culture that encourages breeding regardless of family circumstances and discourages birth control and abortion. Children are cast on the streets because the family hasn't the resources for their socialization or schooling. They no little of the value of life outside of alcohol and drugs. A country that forces a rape victim to give birth to the rapist's child but arrests males if they wear a dress needs a priority adjustment. Also, Argentina attracts unskilled labor from neighboring indigenous populations. The history of the way European settlers treated these populations is not to be read before eating a meal. Sins of our fathers haunt us. The Catholic church who were ever present with the conquistadors never flinched when the indigenous women and girls were traded as slaves and properly beaten if they refused rape. But now, as if by magic we expect proper social behavior from this heritage?
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Arial
Advanced Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 286
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 5:10 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I've spent a lot of time in Argentina in the cities that I mentioned but I think I have missed the side of Argentina you describe. Not saying it isn't there--only that I haven't seen it, so thanks for the input.

I usually stay in San Telmo when in the Capitol and often travel through the city alone on the subway. I find people friendly and helpful. I am often made uncomfortable by young men who rise to offer me their seat. Don't misunderstand. I am glad they are like that! Someone raised them right. But even at my age I am as able to stand in the subway as they are and I hate to take their seat! But I hope that never changes! Their respect and gracious ways are not limited to seats on the subway in my experience.

So you see the side of Argentina that I have experienced.

However, I also am on the careful side. I observe the Argentine women, how they hold their purses and walk with purpose. I do the same. I act like I belong there and am no one to mess with! It is a city of twelve million and common sense is in order.

We have a young woman friend who frequently comes to see us in San Telmo and goes back home alone on the subway at night, sometimes rather late. I was concerned at first and thought someone should accompany her, but she assures us that she will be fine.

One of my family members--the one who talked me into looking at Argentina in the first place, tells me that you have to provide layers of protection there. An outside layer (the fence, etc.), an inner layer (maybe secure walls and windows) another inner layer (a safe or safes) and so on. I have had an alarm system in Florida and I always keep a firearm and I am qualified, not only to use one, but certified by the National Rifle Association to teach several levels of firearms classes. All because I believe in planning and providing for security.

But I wondered about the recommendations of the blogger that I mentioned. In the case of a 2001-style meltdown, what was the best situation to be in at the time? Were the women right that told me crime was not more serious in Buenos Aires during that time? Or is the blogger to be taken seriously? Or both? That was my question. I hoped that someone with personal knowledge would give their opinion. Perhaps there is no one on the forum with that kind of knowledge.

But you guys certainly are adding some things I didn't know.
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Bill Howard
Member
Username: Veritas01

Post Number: 54
Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 5:39 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I have never had a problem in Argentina though I witnessed an attempted purse snatching. An old woman was crossing 9 de Julio and a group of young boys were crossing in the opposite direction and grabbed hold of the purse. She refused to let go and a several men yelled at the boys and they let go and ran off. The old woman just shook her head and continued to cross the street.

I am large by Argentine standards. I am about 6'3" tall and I weigh over 300 pounds. My wife says that keeps some trouble at bay though in the very sleek Argentina I am an object of curiosity and I attract a lot of attention. When I am in Argentina alone (my wife is a teacher and can only get a week off at the holidays...I have worked 37 years for the same company and I get 6 weeks vacation so I often stay longer) I walk around BA all the time. Mostly in el centro. I love all the little shops and restaurants and everything else imaginable. I walk during the day and at night. I have been approached a few times by hookers but they generally are quite good natured. I have started down some dark streets and felt uncomfortable and I turned around. I dont consciously seek trouble. I know problems operate on the law of large numbers. Some people will have a bad experience because they are in the wrong place at the right time but they are a minority. Most people go about their life with no issues.

I plan to retire to Argentina with my Argentine wife and our young son at some point. I wont live there in fear but I will be careful.
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Living in Patagonia
Junior Member
Username: Soulskier

Post Number: 39
Registered: 9-2008
Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 7:41 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

My observation is that some Argentines are a bit on the paranoid side.
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Richard Graham
Junior Member
Username: Richg

Post Number: 30
Registered: 6-2007
Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 8:28 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I echo the above sentiment Soulskier. People tend to think that my home country (the UK) is a haven of peace and tranquility. I would be interested in the official crime figures and compare them with others.

A thought, how many people do you know have home and contents insurance. In the UK the majority do and are perhaps less wary of robbery, I havenīt met many in Mendoza that do not have insurance so perhaps the approach is far more preventative.

Although it would be wrong to disregard crime in Argentina (There are some shocking headlines once in a while) I think there is a political agenda with insecurity. Other more dangerous threats exist. I do not feel safe in a car and i am very cautious driving, because the unexpected happens on the road WAY too much. What are the government doing to address this.....nothing in reality.
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Ricardo
New member
Username: Gromit

Post Number: 20
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Friday, September 04, 2009 - 6:34 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Greetings!
Have not posted for a long time, been busy getting settled here in Buenos Aries. Just wanted to share with other parents with young children some tips. We came here from Calif. with our three year old over a year ago. Were desperate to find a babysitter and a school. Wanted to let new arrivals know that it can be done! We feel we have been very successful and our now four year old is happy, well adjusted, has many friends, a more active social life than us and is fluent in Spanish. For those with young children, don't despair, the good life here in Buenos Aries awaits them too! We suggest upon arrival finding Club de Amigos is a must.It is basically a private club for children with loads of activities and will provide a wonderful break for parents, too! If you don't speak Spanish ask for Roxy, but there are others there who also speak English.

We also found a school, we regard highly, called Escuela Del Sol,(http://www.escueladelsol.com.ar) It was recommended to us by other parents & was founded 43 years ago by an American. It is well known & is very well respected. The Headmaster speaks English and is wonderfully helpful. The school is not bi-lingual but we,(who do not speak Spanish)have had no problems. The other parents, ( most speak some level of English) have been welcoming, generous, gracious & very helpful. The school is flexible about admitting foreign students for short terms. Met a couple from UK that enrolled their daughter for a short term and they were very happy with their experience at the school. Their five year old daughter picked up Spanish in that short time.
The Headmaster found us a babysitter,(who was a former student) whom we now consider a member of our family.
We have found life here to be all that we had hoped.

(Message edited by admin on September 04, 2009)
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1918
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Friday, September 04, 2009 - 8:34 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Great news, Ricardo!

And thank you for the update.

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