| Author | Message | ||
     Ruben Rodriguez New member Username: Rubeninf Post Number: 1 Registered: 2-2008 |
Hello everyone. My name is Ruben and I've been reading this forum for about a year. I think it's great to have a place with so much information. I want to aske you all for a little input on my situation so let me give you the whole story. I was born in the USA and have lived here my whole life. My mother is American and my Father is Argentine. My parents divorced when I was 5 (I'm 36) and I never had anything else to do with my father. Through my own efforts, I've established a relationship with my family in Argentina. I have a grandmother, 2 aunts, and 4 cousins. I've traveled to Argentina to visit them on three occasions. They live in Parana, Entre Rios. I love it there and would love to spend more time there. This year I've obtained my fathers birth certificate, registered my birth at the consulate in Miami (Where I was born) and in April I have to go to the consulate and I will be taking the oath and getting my Argentine citizenship at which time they told me I will be applying for a passport and a DNI. I'm doing this because I think it's pretty cool to have dual citizenship...with the state of the world today it's nice to be able to pull out a passport that doesn't say USA on it. What I really want to know from you folks that live in Argentina or have business there is will I experience any benefits or negatives by being a citizen? How will my status as a citizen affect me concerning working in Argentina when I visit, buying property, health care, Anything that you can think of. I don't plan on leaving the US, but if I have an opportunity to do something in Argentina business wise...it could turn into something. Any info you guys have would be appreciated. Thanks!!! | ||
| WTMendoza.com Intermediate Member Username: Welcometomendoza Post Number: 143 Registered: 7-2007  |
Hi Ruben, Welcome and congratulations on your progress! Many people don't realize that both Argentina and the USA allow dual citizenship. In many cases, returning Argentines from the USA who have had kids born in USA , are "scared" of nationalizing their kids in Argentina because they think the kids will lose their USA citizenship. It is true that a young Argentine could be sucked into a military draft in Argentina, and if Argentina and the USA ever went to war, there could be issues, etc. Even with just your DNI you will be allowed to work here of course, and being a citizenship you can buy property in ZONA FRONTERA without any paperwork hassles or delay. I couldn’t agree with you more on having as many passports as possible. I have no issues or grudges with thr USA as a whole and love both Argentina and the USA, and Australia. You are so right that being prepared for the international future is excellent planning. I hope others comment on your post also as this is always seems to be the murkiest of subjects. Good luck and congratulations! | ||
| movingtoargentina.typepad.com Intermediate Member Username: Sapphos Post Number: 118 Registered: 2-2006 |
We also have the same situation but on the flip side. Our daughter was born in Argentina and holds Argentine and U.S. citizenship but has French citizenship as well. Essentially she can easily work or go to school on three continents + when she's older. I agree as well, in this day and age the ability to be able to go somewhere else if things really go bad is a great thing to have. Laura Ebook Moving to and Living in Buenos Aires, Argentina http://movingtoargentina.typepad.com | ||
| WTMendoza.com Intermediate Member Username: Welcometomendoza Post Number: 144 Registered: 7-2007 |
Wow Laura that is fantastic - so essentially she can work and live in the whole EU if she pleases, no? | ||
| Ruben Rodriguez New member Username: Rubeninf Post Number: 2 Registered: 2-2008 |
I could be mistaken, but doesn't France make you pick one citizenship? Before the EU, I had a friend who had dual US and French citizenship, but France made him pick one when he turned 18. That might have changed after the EU | ||
| Roberto Board Administrator Username: Admin Post Number: 1508 Registered: 12-2004 |
Ruben, welcome! There is some information on dual nationality on this page, straight from the sources. Like the members above, I agree that having as many open doors as possible is a good idea. I also think you are on the right track regarding getting a EU passport. This should override the French problem, perhaps... The most straightforward benefit of having two passports is the ability to travel and have businesses in both countries. However, this comes with obligations and increased risks as you will have to take into account two very different sets of regulations tax-wise and in regards to "law" in general. Argentina follows "Civil Law" whereas the US follows "English Common Law". I mentioned it another thread, but for the sake of clarity I took the liberty of reprinting an article by an offshore boutique who specializes on this subject. More on English Common Law and Civil Law. | ||
| Arial Intermediate Member Username: Arial Post Number: 146 Registered: 10-2006  |
Ruben, the biggest challenge I see for the US citizen is double taxation. If you are a citizen of the US you are never free from paying tax to the US on your worldwide income, even if you never set foot back in the US again. The only way to get away from that is to give up your US citizenship and even then, if your assets are high enough that they suspect you are doing it to AVOID tax, it can be denied. An accountant in BsAs told me that it would cost me $700 a year to get him to do my taxes to comply with the laws of both countries. (In the US I do my own with one of those tax software programs!) Argentina has a world wide tax on all your assets wherever you hold them and you have that to deal with as well as US taxes. Argentines are good at hiding assets. They scoff at my concern and tell me "Dont worry about the taxes, nobody pays them." I don´t know how they manage that but that´s what they tell me. If you come here as an employee on wages, there is an $80,000 exemption with the US. If you are self-employed, it is more complicated. This is by no means complete but just to send a red flag warning that it can be something serious to consider. So I suggest you meet with an accountant unless you already know how all this would affect you in your circumstances. Í feel sure there are knowledgable ones here who will climb all over what I have written here. But I still think it an important consideration. Arial | ||
| Ruben Rodriguez New member Username: Rubeninf Post Number: 3 Registered: 2-2008 |
Thanks for the input. Some of what I've read has got me worried, or at least re-thinking this. I do not plan to move to Argentina anytime soon. I probably won't move there at all, but was going to get my citizenship just because it's there for my taking. My plan was to get my citizenship and just keep living my life as normal here in the US. But these posts have made me wonder: 1. If Argentina gives me citizenship will I have to pay income tax in Argentina even though I work and live in the US and have never lived in Argentina? 2. Does this put my US citizenship in jeopardy because I actively sought the Argentine citizenship? I had no say in my Dad being Argentine...and thustly me. Or is that for say someone that immigrates to Argentina and becomes naturalized? I just don't want to do this if it's something that will get me in trouble with the government or make me get taxed twice. I'm not rich by any means but who wants to be taxed twice?? | ||
| WTMendoza.com Intermediate Member Username: Welcometomendoza Post Number: 149 Registered: 7-2007 |
This does NOT put your USA citizenship in jeporady - you are good to go - you can double check with the State Department to hear it first hand. | ||
| Arial Intermediate Member Username: Arial Post Number: 152 Registered: 10-2006 |
Ruben, it is perfectly legal for a US citizen to hold dual citizenships. I know US citizens that hold more than two! As things stand right now, you would not face possibile double taxation unless you move to Argentina. But lots of us are doing it and just coping with it. There are ways. The problem is that if you are a US citizen your income anywhere in the world is subject to US taxes, even if you never set foot back in the US again. It doesn´t mean you WILL be double taxed, but it takes some management not to. If you never move to Argentina, it should never be an issue. In fact, the accountant told me that I would not come under certain Argentina tax requirements unless I am in the country more than 180 days in any one year, even as a resident. So there are some intricacies if you should ever move here. The $700 charge for doing my taxes, if and when I live in Argentina year round, is because it takes someone with knowledge to be able to do it. You get credit in the US, for example, for certain taxes paid in Argentina. Things like that. I hope I am not confusing the issue more. Only two countries in the world that I know of tax their citizens forever wherever they go in the world (unless they give up citizenship) and the US is one of them. Argentina is not. I agree with Roberto. I think you are very wise to get Argentina citizenship. | ||
| Romina Rosenow New member Username: Rominarose Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2009 |
Hi! This feed is old but maybe someone will see it. I am in a similar position as Ruben was. Both of my parents are from Argentina and they immigrated to California before I was born. I was born in the USA and then my parents split up when I was little, my dad went back to Argentina and my mother stayed and remarried an American man. He adopted me and I am a US citizen. My mother became an American citizen when I was 11. I want to get dual citizenship and wonder if I can and how to do it? I am 22 years old and I want to get my Spanish back and live in Argentina. I have a few family members left in Argentina. I also don't speak to my father but I know he's somewhere over there. How do I do it? Does it cost a lot of money? Any advice and input is MUCH appreciated! | ||
| Bill Howard Member Username: Veritas01 Post Number: 61 Registered: 5-2006 |
I think it is pretty simple. We are going to do it for our son. I am an American my wife is Argentine though she recently received her US citizenship. Our son was born 2 years ago in Connecticut. According to my research the only thing you have to do is get a birth certificate of your Argentine born parent or both. Your birth certificate (certified by the Apostile of your state which validates the official signature) that would show at least one Argentine as a parent. Go to the consulate. New York or Washington I know..not sure where else in the US. Miami I think and maybe LA. Fill out a form. It is free. A few weeks later you come back and get your Argentine citizenship certificate. It is called "citizenship by descent". Search on that in the consulate web site for Argentina to make sure I didnt miss anything. You can then apply for a DNI and passport but fees apply for them. You would surely want the DNI if you plan to travel to Argentina. You can then travel domestically at Argentine rates. You can open a savings account, etc. An argentine passport is needed if you want to stay more then 90 days. You would enter Argentina on your Argentine passport and exit via the Argentine passport. You would re-enter the USA on your US passport. They will notice there are stamps missing so you show them your argentine passport. Both countries recognize the others and the concept of dual citizenship and you wont get hassled. Good luck. Let me know how you make out. I can get one by virtue of being married to an Argentine but it is expensive...I think like 400 dollars in fees. We plan to move to Argentina for a few years while our son is young to learn the language, culture and get to know his family down there. | ||
| Romina Rosenow New member Username: Rominarose Post Number: 2 Registered: 5-2009 |
Since I live in California there's no way I can go to Washington anytime soon...I am trying to find out where the consulates are because if there is one in LA that would be perfect. Do you know roughly how much to expect it to cost to get the citizenship and DNI? Thanks for your help!! | ||
| WTMendoza.com Advanced Member Username: Welcometomendoza Post Number: 459 Registered: 7-2007 |
Here is the main website which shows all the consulates including the one in LA http://www.embassyofargentina.us/espanol/consulado sargentinoseneeuu/consuladosargentinoseneeuulosang eles.htm | ||
| Bill Howard Member Username: Veritas01 Post Number: 62 Registered: 5-2006 |
The citizenship is free. However, you need to have your US birth certificate certified with a Apostile from the California Secretary of State Office. In Connecticut it is 25 dollars..not a big deal...but it takes a few weeks. You send them a certified copy of your birth certificate and they return it with the Apostile. Then you take your certified copies of your parents birth certificates (hopefully they have them) and bring them to the consulate and bingo..a few weeks later you are all set. Not sure how much the DNI will cost. You can call and get a price. What part of Argentina are your parents from? Do you intend to go back for tourism or to work and live there? | ||
| Bill Howard Member Username: Veritas01 Post Number: 63 Registered: 5-2006 |
The citizenship is free. However, you need to have your US birth certificate certified with a Apostile from the California Secretary of State Office. In Connecticut it is 25 dollars..not a big deal...but it takes a few weeks. You send them a certified copy of your birth certificate and they return it with the Apostile. Then you take your certified copies of your parents birth certificates (hopefully they have them) and bring them to the consulate and bingo..a few weeks later you are all set. Not sure how much the DNI will cost. You can call and get a price. What part of Argentina are your parents from? Do you intend to go back for tourism or to work and live there? | ||
| Romina Rosenow New member Username: Rominarose Post Number: 3 Registered: 5-2009 |
My parents are from Buenos Aires. I've been back several times for a few weeks at a time, and my desire is to live and work there for minimum six months to about a year. I always have really liked Buenos Aires and the last time I was there (December) I really felt compelled to go back and spend a longer time there to get to know this other side of my ancestry that I didn't really get to experience. Spanish was my first language but I lost much of it from speaking English in school and to my dad and so I am determined to become fluent in it, I have enough of a base that I think will really help me if I put my mind to it. So, I should first get my US birth certificate certified, and then take my mom's Argentine birth certificate and my US birth certificate to the Argentine consulate and so on...does my mom need to get her birth certificate certified as well then? (as in, is that a separate process). As for DNI, is that for instance the process of getting an Argentine passport? Because I definitely plan to do that also, in order to stay longer than 3 months... some stuff I read makes it seem like getting jobs without the proper documentation is easier than doing so in a place like the United States, but I figure that having it is better than not. I really want to work either as an English teacher (which I assume I'd have to get certified for first), or if possible as a writer (travel guides, etc). Anyway, thanks again for all your help. | ||
| Bill Howard Member Username: Veritas01 Post Number: 64 Registered: 5-2006 |
I beleive your parents birth certificate has to be an official one with raised seal. Apparently the Argentine consulate can verify its authenticicy. Not something you have to do. I guess that is what takes time though everything in Argentina takes time. US birth certificates must be autheticated with the Apostile. Yes...just bring them to the consulate and fill out a free form and bingo. Please check before you go to make sure I am not missing anything. There are jobs in Argentina where people work under the table "or in the black" as they say in Argentina. But if you have papers you should be in a better position to get a good job. Taxation may be an issue however. You will need to declare your Argentine income on a US form. However, you get credit for any Argentine tax you pay so you should be ok. As was mentioned in previous posts you could just forgo reporting it to the IRS. How will they know? There is no reciprical reporting of income between the two countries as far as I know. English teachers in Argentina are as plentiful as alfajores. It was estimated that over a million people are fluent in English in Argentina. Every expatriate american or brit who goes to argentina wants to teach english. Try searching for american companies with offices in Buenos Aires and see if you can get a job with them. Dont go to BA without a job. I believe the process is the DNI first then the passport. Not sure if they can be applied for at the same time. Writer is the second job everyone ssys they will do. Again...great idea but really tough to make a living at. A travel web site might be an idea that caters to Americans, perhaps a tour guide (upscale) for American tourists...but tourism has declined quite a bit in this economy. Again try and get an office job in a US company and moonlight as an english teacher or writer. Don't count on either of those part time positions to sustain you. You may wish to try and contact other expatriate americans in BA your own age. Try ICQ..a chat program that is popular or was at least with Argentines. Create an ID then search for women who speak english and live in BA and have similar interests and start chatting with them. THey can give you ideas about costs, living standards, safety, job opportunties or lack there of....etc. It is certainly a good opportunity for you. | ||
| Romina Rosenow New member Username: Rominarose Post Number: 4 Registered: 5-2009 |
Ok, all of this sounds great! I will definitely look into the things you have suggested. Also, though I have these ideas of teaching english and writing (though those are not my only ideas of working, just the two which first come to mind) I would not go to BA without some savings first. I will definitely try to secure a job before I go, but I think that if I at least have US dollars in the bank when I get there that I won't be totally screwed. When I went last it was still 3 pesos to 1 dollar, but prices there were definitely going up from before so it wasn't as cheap as when I visited in 2006. Still, it ought to be cheaper with the conversion rate than California living! Thanks for all your help...good luck with your travel plans. If something else comes up I may be back with more q's or advice. I definitely think it's important to keep up this community! |
