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sean cahoon
New member
Username: Sean123456

Post Number: 5
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 11:46 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Where are the areas that a foreign white person should not go? Here in San Francisco I would say Hunters point because there is alot of shootings.


Thank You!!
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Alejandro Fretes
New member
Username: Afretes

Post Number: 24
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 12:23 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

You can just say "foreign", there are quite a lot of "white" argentines like me, and we can go pretty much anywhere.
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1909
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 12:50 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Like Alejandro said, pretty much anywhere you are somewhat safe. In Buenos Aires as well as provinces these are the areas you should be aware of. Pretty much lawlessness. Easy to spot.
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Julieta Durante
New member
Username: Just_ba

Post Number: 17
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 12:56 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I know a lot of "white" people, like you, that I try to avoid.
If you are a racist please don't come to our country.
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1912
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 1:36 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Julieta, if I understood Sean correctly he is just extrapolating from his american experience where there is a chance that white people may run into trouble in some areas. I had to contend with a few issues when -unknowingly- I went to cut my hair to a barbershop in a black neighborhood in the outskirts of Memphis, TN many years ago, while living there. Sean may not know that argentines are mostly white, or in american lingo "white hispanics".

I recently heard in NPR the head of the EEOC - Equal Employment Opportunity Commision (the agency of the United States Government that enforces the federal employment discrimination laws) discuss how they came up with the categorization of races for employment purposes (latin, white, hispanics, asian, etc.) and she had some interesting answers in regards to the differences between "latin" and "hispanic". For example, brazilians are latins but not hispanics. I am thinking that americans consider "white" people as anglosaxons mostly and hispanics may or may not be white. Anway, US may have to deal with these issues because of the large mix of races within their country, whereas Argentina is much much more homogeneous.

Sean, we think of ourselves as "white". Although some of us have so much hair that you wouldn't know, haha.
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Victor W.
Member
Username: Wvictor

Post Number: 73
Registered: 9-2008
Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 1:45 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Sean, there are some areas you might not want to go, but it does not matter if you are white, yellow, black or green... Don't go there asking this question that way becuase a lot of people is going to send you directly to the troubled areas...
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Julieta Durante
New member
Username: Just_ba

Post Number: 18
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 3:17 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Maybe I misunderstood what Sean meant. If I was, I apologise for that!
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Kenneth Kilpatrick
New member
Username: Vanman

Post Number: 18
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 6:32 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hey Roberto I lived in Memphis from '85 to '88. Anyone who has lived in Memphis knows how crazy racial issues can get in the U.S.. To be honest Argentina is very attractive because I can blend in and go about my business. There was a time when the thought of living as a minority in Latin America or Southeast Asia was very appealing to me. After a number of years on the Mexican border I have an appreciation for what minorities go through in the U.S. and have no desire to live in those circumstances fulltime.

Not sure if it applies to Sean, but many Americans are taught from childhood on that the U.S. is the greatest place on Earth, that much of the rest of the world is extremely dangerous, that other countries resent us and want to destroy us. I think a sure cure for anyone with those fears is to go to Lonely Planet's Thorn Tree forum and read the endless posts of safe travel to all corners of the world. I realized after reading there years ago just how little I knew about the world and just how attractive life can be elsewhere. The U.S. has alot to offer but for many of us it's a real grind to have anything here and after 30+ years of work some of us want more than to continue to grind away just to get by or buy stuff. I can say in one word, for example, a huge difference in the cultural outlook of Americans and Argentines. Siesta! Explain that concept to an American corporate boss! Anyways I hope the good Argentine participants of this forum don't take offense at our lack of understanding. We're learning, and that we are even on this forum sets us apart from average Americans!
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Victor W.
Member
Username: Wvictor

Post Number: 74
Registered: 9-2008
Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 7:07 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Kenneth, I apprecite your view and I cold not agree more, I kind of get really mad when Americans think that the US is the best place on earth and all the rest is dangerous, I think that is so not true, after living in the US for 5 years now, and being lucky to live in a very nice city, I can anyway tell that it can be very dangerous too if you are not careful, yes it is a land of opportunity, but it comes with a price... It is like everyone is afraid of who lives across the street.. Is that safe? Is that good life?

Anyway, I don't think anyplace in Buenos Aires will be more dangerous for a tourist that will for a local, unless you are green with purple stripes or walking with a huge camera hinging on your chest, no one will know you are a tourist. The beauty of BA, is a huge mix of colors an people, so no one know.
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1913
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 8:26 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Kenneth, I know exactly how you feel as I felt the same way during those years in north Mississippi (it wasn't really Memphis, that was just the barbershop tale). I would say there is a lot to gain by living abroad, for anyone. For example, I learned about efficiency while in the US. Now, good luck trying to explain that concept to an argentine corporate boss, haha. So there are + and - in both sides of the hemisphere.

However, it has been my experience that almost all expats I met here that came from different countries, universally think this is a locomotive running at full steam. You hit the ground running. What makes this country good is what also makes it difficult but the same applies to Argentina, in my view. I do miss the 'hanging out' that is so common down there :-(

Sorry Sean, looks like we drifted from your topic a little bit.

(Message edited by admin on August 31, 2009)
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Kenneth Kilpatrick
New member
Username: Vanman

Post Number: 20
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 9:44 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

A steaming locomotive is a good analogy. It does work both ways with our countries. I remember years ago a Peruvian wrote on the Thorn Tree that he hoped to see Machu Picchu. All of these mostly college age people from Western nations were making plans to see it and this guy who only lived a couple hundred miles away was typing in an internet cafe that he hoped to have enough money to see it someday. Even though it's a small pension here, I'm pretty lucky to have some options for my future. And I'm going to stop hijacking this thread! Hey Sean, I believe violent crime wise Argentina, Chile, and Uruguay are all safer than the U.S. The southern cone of South America is the best place on earth IMO!
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Kenneth Kilpatrick
New member
Username: Vanman

Post Number: 21
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 9:56 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hey Victor, I remember Gabriela Sabatini being interviewed years ago and was asked how life was different in the States from Argentina. She wasn't very experienced in public relations at that point and said that in Argentina everyone was outside walking around and saying hi but in the States everyone stays inside their homes. The lady interviewing her looked surprised and quickly changed the subject. But it was an honest answer.
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sean cahoon
New member
Username: Sean123456

Post Number: 6
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 10:53 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

To all who are offended:

I do not think that america is the best place on earth nnor do I think that everybody hates us. I just wanted to know where not to go.

I only wamted to know where not to go, not spike a discussion on racism. If you came to san francisco and if you were white, I would tell you not to visit Hunters Point. I would also caution a black, latino or Asian in the same way .

It is a sad fact that you are more likely to get beatup in a place in Hunters Point if you are white.

Just like in some areas if you are black, you are more likely to get beat up.
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1915
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 11:43 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Sean, thank you for the clarification. I do not think you will see this kind of dynamics anywhere in Argentina. There is a lot less racial tension here than in the US. This doesn't mean argentines are more open-minded. Only that since the population is more homogeneous we haven't been exposed to other cultures/races as much, therefore never developing a bias. There is still discrimination here but it is slighlty different. On another front, you could get beaten up badly at a soccer game if you provoke the opposite team, for example. But this is also different from what you have described about Hunters point.

I still think these are the places to be avoided. These type of settlements have sprawled over the city and are a refuge for drug dealers, thugs and outlaws. Some decent people may live there too but since they are illegal, where all public services (water, power, satellite dish, etc.) are stolen one has to wonder who really lives there. I doubt you will ever get close to one of these areas but knowing about them will not hurt.
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Tom
Advanced Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 476
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 12:24 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Sean,
Don't take the rebuke personally. The US is a melting pot of peeople from all over the world.
Argentina on the other hand is not. The population is said to be 97% European, read white.
The US has three dominant groups, Hispanics, blacks and whites even though hispanics in most circumstances are considered white.
In surveys I have taken I am often asked if I am white with a variously worded question as to white of hispanic decent.

My advice on where to go and not to go is if it looks unsafe, don't go there. On the other hand I visited a section of Buenos Aires that was in the port area the name of which I do not recall. It had very colorfully painted older buildings, statues and was obviously a tourist area. However, our taxi driver warned us to be careful and even volunteered to wait for us to look around.

Like in any major city in the world there are more dangerous parts where one should not go at certain times or any of the time or not at all.

I recall the story of the man in Los Angeles who made a wrong turn on a street that took him into a gang area in which he was killed.

For the most part I traveled pretty much all over Buenos Aires the city and province and never had any trouble with one exception. That was in Buenos Areas on a Sunday afternoon on Correnties street which was at that particular time of day was practically deserted. A pickpocket tried to steal my wallet. I guess it was my fault, I should have been in church.

I think Argentina is one of the best places in the world to visit or to live.
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George Washington
New member
Username: Georgew6

Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 1:26 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Maybe all cities have become even worse than before with petty and not so petty crime. For decades I managed to travel to most major cities in North and South America, without incident, and sometimes in not safe areas. Then two years ago, in Santiago, a teenager tried to steal my wallet right out of my pocket. This was near the hotel and university downtown and I was so surprised that I swung around, yelled and took a swing at him. He took off in the other direction without my wallet. Some younger kids nearby selling papers, or something, asked if he got it and I told them NO, and in my country I would have killed him! Not true, but there wide-eyed surprise probably started rumors about those crazy, dangerous Yankees.
Then last year a woman friend, walking in Palermo, BA, had a bracelet ripped off her arm. She did not get hurt, but this is a fairly common crime in BA and can get you hurt. Arms have been broken by people doing this, either when they run by or do the same on a moto.
A couple of years ago the Bush twins were down there and some idiot tried to rob them. Even with secret service protection this happened in a heavy tourist area. Argentines I spoke to were embarrassed and blamed the police and government, as well as the criminals. The incident made the front pages of the papers.
Also, word was that the girls' body guards took some heavy hits when they had to step in to keep some too eager guys away from the girls, who had gone out to a night club. I don't know if this was true, however.
As to the USA, almost anyone can tell you where you should not go, especially at night. Again, unfortunately, both petty crime and very serious crime is a real problem in the USA. Our jails hold more prisoners than any other in the world. That should tell you something.
Please, everyone, take precautions when traveling anywhere. Ask somebody, such as a hotel clerk or police officer. Check your guide book. Look up what information your Embassy puts out.
Also, remember that your skin color has little to do with your safety. For thieves, what is important is whether or not you look (1) vulnerable and (2) have money or something else they want. Remember though, criminals are often stupid, ignorant idiotic people. Otherwise, they would not attack the US President's daughters who had both US and Argentine body guards. Nor would a would-be thief attack a 250 lb university of Tennessee football player in the parking lot of his school while the man was escorting his girlfriend through a parking lot in the evening! That just happened and the thief became the victim, not the football player!
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1926
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 2:55 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thank you for the heads up! Quite a post coming from George Washington himself :-)

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