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Thomas
New member
Username: Peilab

Post Number: 2
Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2006 - 9:37 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I have a question that regards the citizenship procedure, DNI, etc. At the end of the month my fiancée will be joining me here in Wisconsin to spend 2 weeks and even though it has been several weeks since my visit there it feels like years. The highlight of the stay will be our getting married and there are several reasons for doing this at this time even though she will be returning to BA. One of the reasons we are doing it now is so as to make it easier for me to obtain my citizenship in Argentina where we plan to live. Does anyone have any knowledge of this process of obtaining the citizenship as a spouse and the papers that she might have to fill out and sign before she returns home? My plans are to relocate there by the end of the calendar year and we feel that it is in our best interest to initiate the process as soon as possible.

Thomas
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 520
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2006 - 4:51 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

-> it is in our best interest to initiate the process as soon as possible.

Thomas, you got that part right. In general, any of the procedures that involves an argentine federal office are just a nightmare. One that you -as an american- cannot even conceive. I am not a lawyer and my advise will be of little use to you (translate into find a good attorney) but I seriously doubt your coming marriage in Wisconsin with an argentine woman will help you in anyway regarding your quest for an argentine citizenship.

When I was married to an american citizen, that marriage was null in Argentina and meant nothing to my former wife in terms of local rights/citizenship...
Apart from consulting a lawyer I recommend that you look at this wesbite carefully. I take you can handle some spanish if you are making this move to the southern hemisphere:

http://www.mininterior.gov.ar/renaper/
http://www.mininterior.gov.ar/migraciones/radicaci on.asp

For anything related to marrying an argentine citizen you should research the "Registro Civil" of your (future) local jurisdiction:

http://www.mininterior.gov.ar/renaper/registros.as p

Perhaps someone who has moved and married will chime in...

P.S. the word radicacion spells the wrong way on this forum :-(
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Riyad Anabtawi
Junior Member
Username: Riyada

Post Number: 35
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2006 - 6:26 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Oh yes I agree fully with Roberto..
Nightmare : Stale buraucracy rules in Immigration.
For one I know that you cannot apply for citizneship right away.
You need to apply for a residence permit, which could take for ever like in my case.. I applied for mine since I have an Argentine son here, and it has been something like 5 years, and nothing/no one knows whats up.. For all I know they might have lost it in their humungous rotting paper archives in BA.

So I am stuck with a "precaria" (sort of a temporary permanent residence) piece of paper. This you have to renew once every three months paying 10 pesos each time. And you cannot stay out of the country for more than 3 months.
Suppose you get your premanent residence you then have to wait for like 5 yrs till you get your citizenship..
So it is not that smooth..
Cheers
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ana isabel mendez davila
New member
Username: Annie12

Post Number: 1
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 6:05 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

hi, im from colombia and looking forward to relocate in argentina, buenos aires before june ends...i havent find a job on the internet but i`ll look for i when i get there...i just want to know how are the migrants laws in argentina as i dont want to be illegal there...im a professional journalist. Can someone please help me with information please?
thanks!
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Riyad Anabtawi
Junior Member
Username: Riyada

Post Number: 37
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 7:04 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi there..
As in many countries, if and when you find a job here, it is normally easy for you to get a work permit and temporary residence through the company, which should arrange all the paperwork for you..
Cheers.
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Thomas
New member
Username: Peilab

Post Number: 3
Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 7:14 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Roberto and Riyad,
Thanks so kindly for responding to my question regarding the the citizenship as a spouse to an Argentine. I am sure it is going to be an interesting process and one that I will have most the answers for after the process is over. The links and suggestions have been most helpful.

Thomas
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 523
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 1:32 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Ana, please check those links I posted for earlier. The one you want to look in-depth is the one about 'radicaciones'
http://www.mininterior.gov.ar/migraciones/radicacion.asp

(Message edited by admin on October 29, 2006)
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Arial
New member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 8
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 3:25 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I don't know if I should chime in here or not. I have applied for residency in Argentina and am waiting for approval from Migrations. Then I must appear at the Argentina Consulate in the US to pick up my residency papers.

Another US expat I met in Bariloche obtained residency before he left the US and seemed to think it had been easy. For him, the nightmare was in bringing in their household possessions--particularly their car. His emphatic advice was to bring nothing unless I consider it irreplaceable in Argentina--like family heirlooms.

So I am not sure what to think about these other posts. Maybe I am in for a rude awakening. Arial
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Orlando Martinez
New member
Username: Bracsim

Post Number: 9
Registered: 9-2006
Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 8:43 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I did not know you could get permanent recidency before you left the USA, anybody knows anything about that, can that be done that way????????????. Also I heard that if somebody is investing over $30 000 dollars in Argentina they could get recidency a lot easy, is that a fact?????
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movingtoargentina.typepad.com
Junior Member
Username: Sapphos

Post Number: 46
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 11:00 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Orlando, You are actually supposed to start all of your residency requests in your country in origin, not after you've gotten to Argentina. That's why you should really start a good five or six months before you plan to come here.

The investing in Argentina is one way, you also have rentista and retiree visas you can explore as well as a few other options.

You can read more about the different types of visas at http://www.mininterior.gov.ar/migraciones/permisos.asp

Good luck,
Laura

(Message edited by admin on October 29, 2006)
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Arial
New member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 12
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, November 09, 2006 - 6:09 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

This forum is a wonderful service. My sincere thanks to those who are providing it.

Someone on this forum wrote of a bad experience with AFN Visas. That person apparently had a disagreement with them and they refused even to return his documents. As far as the information that we have here, I can't say anything to defend that.

However, my experience with AFN has been so excellent that I feel obligated to share my own experience. My visa will be the retiree visa and I do know that the investment visas are much more difficult. One immigration attorney advised a relative of mine not to even try it right now.

The interesting outlook in Latin America seems to be that things change frequently so if it is not favorable now, wait until it is. I have learned that it is necessary to learn the culture in order to understand what is going on and this seems to be the culture. A lot of patience is required and people coming here need to understand that. You just don't hurry much of anything and understanding that early is a big plus. When I was thwarted in buying real estate in Bariloche, a real estate agent strongly advised me not to move on but to stay there and rent because it will all change in a year or two. She said that is the beauty of Argentina, it is totally disfunctional! (giggle-giggle I have to laugh! But that has been confirmed for me by other Argentines.) But back to the subject . . .

I proceeded with my visa and AFN has been absolutely wonderful to me. How could I ever say enough good about them? I personally would recommend them without hesitation. We have hit a number of snags but they are so patient, even in one case paying the expense to solve one of them just to get it done quickly, when it was not their obligation. They are so encouraging and reassuring with my worries when they arise.

I do not have the visa yet but I think we are in the final stretch and I promise to keep you informed. I will be happy to give the name of the person at AFN who has handled almost everything for me if that would be of interest to anyone.

I am also happy to answer any questions that I can, as I have already stated elsewhere on this forum. Arial
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 837
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 09, 2006 - 3:45 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

That is very nice of you Arial, thank you. I don't know anything about AFN. What is it? Do they have a website too? I may have to get girlfriend's paperwork for Argentina in order... any info you want to post will be of great help.
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Arial
New member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 15
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 3:15 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

The web site for AFN is www.afnvisas.com. AFN specializes in residencies for companies who bring foreign employees to Argentina. But they will handle visas for individuals.

The person who has handled most of my visa work is Mariana. You can contact her at info@afnvisas.com. I recommend her highly. However, she assures me that everyone there gives the same quality of service that she does.

There have been quite a few snags in my journey to residency. All were caused by Immigration, even though the visa I applied for is supposedly the easiest to get. Mariana has competently handed them all with Immigration and has been very reassuring to me at times when I thought all was lost.

It all takes time, plus you have a deadline that if you don't have it complete by then, your other papers are out of date and you have to start over. So once you start, don't waste time. You have no idea what delay you could have along the way and there is that deadline looming ahead!

If you contact AFN I hope you will let me know your experience. I receive no benefit for this recommendation but I would like to know that they do a good job for anyone who contacts them because of me. Mariana knows this is my concern in recommending them so if you contact her, I hope you will tell her that Arial from the Argentina forum sent you!

One last bit of advice. If you plan an extended stay in Argentina, get your visa while you are in the US. It is much easier. Without residency you will be denied quite a few things that might be important to you, such as Internet and a telephone, both of which are essential for my business. Also, I like the area in the mountains to the west (Mendoza, San Rafael, Bariloche). Without a resident visa you have to cross the border every 90 days. I can tell you that crossing the Andes by bus into Chile from Bariloche in the middle of winter is no picnic! If you will be near the Uruguay border, have no need for phone or Internet or find a landlord willing to arrange those things for you and take responsibility for them, it may not matter to you.

Otherwise, life is so much easier if you have the visa before you go. I tried it the other way. Which is why I am now getting a visa! Also, if you can manage it, I do recommend an extended stay, if not a permanent move, to Argentina. It is a beautiful and wonderful country with beautiful and wonderful people.

Arial
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movingtoargentina.typepad.com
Member
Username: Sapphos

Post Number: 60
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 5:08 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I can second the experience with AFN, they were very professional and were 1/3 the price of another company that comes up all the time in web searches. We ended up not using them in the end as I got pregnant and we can now go a different route for our visas.

One thing I want to say though is you shouldn't have to worry, at least around Buenos Aires, about getting Internet without your visa. We have both cable and internet that we got just with out passports, with Cablevision and Fibertel. You should really check around because there are several companies that will allow you to take Internet just with your passport.

Laura
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Arial
New member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 16
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 8:07 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Laura, thank you so much for including that information about getting those services on your passport in Buenos Aires. My experience is confined to Bariloche.

You could, of course, get a cell phone. But you could get a landline or cable connection to your apartment only if a resident/citizen was willing to do it for you in their own name.

Apparently it varies by area or else there has been one of Argentina's frequent changes! Thanks for the input. Arial
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 853
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Arial and Laura, thank you. Yes, once I contact Mariana I will let her know it was you who referred me but this won't happen till Feb/March next year.
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Arial
New member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 23
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 10:28 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Yayyyyy! My residency is moving toward completion. All paperwork is complete, has preliminary approval by Argentina immigration and now I am dealing with the Argentina Consulate in Miami. I hope that before January is over it will be complete.

Can anyone give me advice or share experience about shipping personal items to Argentina? Someone in Bariloche told me not to bring ANYTHING unless it was not replaceable in Argentina. He told me a horror story about not knowing to fill out a certain form on a car he shipped there from Florida and they fined him as much as the car was worth! He said he only shipped it because his wife wanted the manual shift. Also had to pay fees or duty or something on other items.

I have a cargo trailer 6 x 10 with everything packed in it and would like to ship that.

Any advice? Either on whether to do it at all, what companies to call, or any suggestion at all will be SO welcome.

Arial
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Arial
New member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 24
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 10:37 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I want to add one more comment. We discussed AFN Visas a while back. Although I may be writing this too soon (I do not yet have Visa in hand) they have handled this entire process for me and have been wonderful to me every step of the way.

Mariana, whom I formerly recommended as a contact, has moved on to a different job as a certified translator and Natalia is now handling my residency procedure. My time with her has been brief but equally competent.

Just have to give credit where credit is due. Arial
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Riyad Anabtawi
Intermediate Member
Username: Riyada

Post Number: 128
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 5:37 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Arial:
Depends what you have in that trailer. Can you not easily replace in Arg?
When I read this, the first word that came to mind: "SUICIDE", and there followed the following additional ones : Major Pain, Hassles, Forever, Never, $$$$$'s.............

It is best to come here light weight.
Riyad
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 903
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 12:51 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Arial, are you in Miami or south Florida? If you are, your best bet will be to pick up one of those local gazettes that are in stands just like 'New Times". Argentines publish one for the argentine residents in the Miami area and I have seen numerous moving companies advertising. These guys should know all about it. If you are not close to any stand I'll walk around the corner and see if I can find an issue and post the information here.
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Arial
Junior Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 27
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 3:10 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Oh dear, Riyad. Suicide? You sound suspiciously like my Bariloche friend. Well, let's see. I emptied a four bedroom house with attic, a garage with attic, and, believe it or not, a shed . . . with attic. Have disposed of everthing except what's in the trailer. I can part with the trailer.

Inside the trailer I have tools for a relative also going down--several years of accumulation that he thinks he can't live without. I do a lot of raw food preparation that requires a dehydrator. I have a good one. Also a serious juicer, linens, sterling silver (one of the few valuables that I kept) a few good stainless pots (what I saw in Argentina was junk). I am technically retired because I qualify for retirement. But I am not! I do a lot of writing and serious stock market investing. I have boxes of books that are important to me. Plus two laptops with peripherals. Are you getting the picture?

I kept one piece of furniture that I love, but I will part with if I have to. But there are going to be a lot of tears! It is an antique gate leg table. I am into "small" these days and it is one of those old ones with leaves that drop to the floor and sets nicely out of the way against the wall. I have two extra removable leaves and with the dropped leaves raised and removable leaves in place, it seats ten people, twelve if there are no lefties in the group I did not keep the chairs. They are not so important.

I might as well face the truth now and make other arrangements if that is necessary. Appreciate your input. Arial
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Arial
Junior Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 28
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 3:14 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thank you for the tip, Roberto, about moving companies advertising in the NYT. I am sure I can get the Times here. Really appreciate that. Arial
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Tom
Advanced Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 303
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 4:03 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hey Arial
I read the NY Times online every day.

http://www.nytimes.com

I have mine set up to get an email from them everyday.

Hasta Luego
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movingtoargentina.typepad.com
Member
Username: Sapphos

Post Number: 65
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 4:24 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Arial, I can also suggest a company here in Argentina who might be able to get you with someone. They worked with our friends who shipped from France (including their car) and were excellent. Lily who I have spoken to a couple of times is very professional and has lived in the States, has excellent English, and knows all the ins and outs of shipping here.
Try sending her an email or giving her a call. Here's the contact information.

Lily Campbell
UNIVERSAL CARGO S.R.L.
Tacuarí 202 piso 1º
C1071AAF) Buenos Aires - Argentina
Tel: 4331-5145 / 4342-3557
Fax: 4331-6161
Email: lcampbell@universalcargo.com.ar
http://www.universalcargo.com.ar

Laura
http://movingtoargentina.typepad.com/ebook
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Riyad Anabtawi
Intermediate Member
Username: Riyada

Post Number: 129
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 6:15 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Arial..
Best bet also is go see the guys at the Argentinian consulate who gave you the residency here, and ask them if customs here will allow you to bring in everything personal you want to bring in.
They might just let you since you're moving in to live here for the first time. They might then ask you to make a list of all the suff you are bringing and have them give you the green light, so to speak..


Never know
Riyad
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Arial
Junior Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 49
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 9:07 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hello All!!!! Good news. I just returned from the Argentina Embassy in Miami and wonder of wonders, I got my visa today. I have all papers in hand and pick up my DNI in Buenos Aires!

Although there have been several challenges, the most interesting, negatively speaking, is the fact that my name on my passport is not the same as the one on my birth certificate. That's because I married. It seems they just can't undertand how the person on the birth certificate and the one on the US passport can be the same person with two different last names.

In Argentina, a woman does not acquire her husband's last name. At first Argentina migrations insisted I present them with a passport in the same name as the birth certificate. I checked to see if that was possible and found out that the only way to do that is to hire a lawyer and legally change my name in court.

My immigration attorney in Buenos Aires finally convinced Migrations to grant me residency in spite of the discrepancy but I was told at the embassy today that this name situation is "one big problem." It makes me wonder if no other North American woman ever applied before.

But . . . I take it a step at a time and today is a milemarker day!
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1008
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 9:29 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Arial C-O-N-G-R-A-T-U-L-A-T-I-O-N-S!!!!

This is an argentine *classic*. It has all the signs.

I have seen that "one big problem" first hand in the Miami consulate too while watching couples from Mexico, other latin countries and even argentines struggling to get things done because of the small, innocent discrepancy. For us, witnesses it was both unbelievable yet so familiar. If it makes you feel any better many have gone -and are going- through the same. So it is not personal.

If you can solve the issue and remain emotionally unscath, then you are ready for your new life down south.
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Arial
Junior Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 50
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 10:09 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hello again. I realize that some of you have given me some much appreciated information and advice for which I have not thanked you. And so I decided to write a belated
BIG THANK YOU!
Roberto, I love your web site. As one new post-er wrote lately, this is the "mother load." Thanks. Arial
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movingtoargentina.typepad.com
Member
Username: Sapphos

Post Number: 74
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 6:02 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Arial,
First, congrats! Did you finish out the whole procedure with AFN?

Second, I'm not at all surprised at the name problem. Yes it's a huge problem in general, but for women it is confusing. I really threw them for a loop when we registered Caitlyn's birth certificate at the Registro Civil in December. I had to show them my passport and my birth certificate and my marriage license because the woman was a bit confused about the name and I wanted to make sure everything was correctly recorded so that when the day comes that we want to apply for permanent residency under our Argentine daughter we can. Of course it took us two trips to get all the paperwork straight because the midwife at our birth didn't record my middle initial so I had to have the papers redone before the Registro Civil would accept.

Speaking of this, it is true that the bueracracy here is a nightmare. My friend had to take her 90 year old mother to claim her deceased husbands benefits. They got there and took number 4**, asked someone else what number they were on (at 1 pm) and it was like 250 or something. The place was hot, no ac, full of people. Finally after a long wait they got to the window and something was missing in her name, like an initial or something and they turned them away to come back. The woman refused to do anything to help even though she could have tried. So they had to make another trip on another day.

As Roberto said, it's not personal.

Congrats again,
Laura
http://movingtoargentina.typepad.com/ebook
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Arial
Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 51
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 7:23 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Laura and Roberto, thanks for your encouraging words. I didn't take it personally. I find most Argentines laugh at their bureaucracy and I try to take my cues from the locals.

Yes, all completed with AFN. I have paid them in full but I still got an email from them last night asking how I am doing and reminding me that they stand available if any problem should arise. I still have to deal with Argentina immigrations again upon my return (for my DNI). The agent in Miami gave me a choice between immigrations in BsAS or Mendoza, Mendoza being the area where I plan to be. I am going to travel to BsAs immigrations office because it would be more convenient for AFN--in case I still need their assistance.

Yesterday was my second trip to the Miami Embassy. I wrote on this forum before that it is 3 hours. I estimated by mileage without considering curb to curb traffic. Yesterday, I observed that the trip back to Central Florida actually took SIX HOURS!

Another thing, I could not have done this without my Spanish-speaking son who graciously flew here to help me. The lovely Argentina woman at the Embassy speaks English at roughly the same level that I speak Spanish. Enough for polite, surface conversation but not all this legal stuff. Had it not been for my son, I would have had to hire an interpreter to go along. I have to smile that, in a state where even answering machines answer in Spanish AND English, the Argentina embassy in downtown Miami, Florida does not offer service in English. Or at least in my case they did not.

But all is well. I have included information here about AFN, which I frankly love! However, I seldom make recommendations for anything, and never intentionally recommend anyone who is not dependable. If anyone here uses them and has a problem, please, please please let me know. I would definitely check with them, and unless I am satisfied, will not recommend them to others. But for now, I don't see how they could have done more for me than they have.

This is a great place to post information for all to see. Thanks for all of your contributions

Arial
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Riyad Anabtawi
Intermediate Member
Username: Riyada

Post Number: 144
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 7:43 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Arial..
I have just gotten my permanent residence here approved..
My question is do I really have to get the DNI? Can I not just move around with the certificate of residency?
I dont really want the DNI, as I am not planning on living here all that long term..
Thanks
Riyad
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Simon Fawkes
New member
Username: Expatba

Post Number: 8
Registered: 1-2007


Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 8:03 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Riyad

DNI numbers are an essential part of life in Argentina and are needed for many transactions, particularly where contracts are involved, and for interactions with government and the banking system. Although a passport can often be used instead, showing a DNI is much easier. Foreigners with a DNI are entitled to the same rights (except voting) and legal protections as Argentinean citizens - those without a DNI are not.

In short, you don't *actually* need one, but having one will certainly make things simpler.

I hope this helps.

Simon Fawkes
Author, The Complete Guide To Real Estate Investment in Argentina, ISBN 1430303980, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1430303980
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Arial
Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 52
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 8:26 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Riyad, thanks to Simon you apparently have an answer. My answer is that, for you, I don't know. In Bariloche last year I couldn't even get a phone or cable internet in my apartment without a DNI. Someone else on this forum wrote that you can get a phone in BsAs without one. I am going for permanent residence--maybe even citizenship eventually--and all I can see to having one is advantages. But what would be your reason for not getting it? Will you leave soon and never return? Arial
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Riyad Anabtawi
Intermediate Member
Username: Riyada

Post Number: 145
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 8:39 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi all..
Never really had a reason for a DNI.. I have been living here for 7 yrs and not needed one.. I just use my own documents for everything, for phones/internet/buying property.. basically everything..
I dont want to collect docs and I am not planning on living here for ever..
Simon: would you please expand on this?
"entitled to the same rights (except voting) and legal protections"
what rights and protections?
Thanks
Riyad
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Riyad Anabtawi
Intermediate Member
Username: Riyada

Post Number: 146
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 8:45 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

In answer to your question Arial, as I said I am not planning on living here for ever.. I prefer to be near the ocean in Brasil. None here in Mendoza.. Eventually I'll just be coming back and forth to Argentina.
Riyad
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Simon Fawkes
New member
Username: Expatba

Post Number: 9
Registered: 1-2007


Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 10:00 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Riyad

Regarding your question: "...entitled to the same rights (except voting) and legal protections" effectively means the State treats you as an Argentinean citizen rather than a foreigner. The implications of this are many and varied - e.g. entitlement to government help in certain situations, and legal recourse if the State has breached its duties to you as a citizen. In short, you you have the same rights of redress as any other citizen.

Also your rights may be stronger in any legal dispute with another Argentinean party. Look on the various Consular websites if you need any more information.

I hope this helps.

Simon Fawkes
Author, The Complete Guide To Real Estate Investment in Argentina, ISBN 1430303980, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1430303980
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A. D. Hudgens
New member
Username: Hijo_de_tejas

Post Number: 7
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 1:43 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Let me first thank you Arial for the very informative post you have provided on this forum. Also thank you for telling me about the book "And the Money Keeps Rolling In And Out" This was very informative because I had no idea how the IMF and other agencies like that worked.

I plan for an extended stay in Patagonia begining September of this year. The DNI would help reduce the cost if I could get airline tickets at the same price as the local people. What can I expect the help from AFN to cost for my wife and myself? Will I have time to get this before I depart? Will you lose your retiree visa if you stay out of Argentina for an extended time? Will having the retiree visa prevent you from working (self employment)because of the type of visa? Arial, I pray you have returned to Argentina by now and are having the time of your life. My wife and I are in our 60's and enjoyed our 18 days in Argentina last November. Lovely place and people. My desire is to spend three months each year along the Andes as long as our health will allow and the money holds out.

Roberto, thank you for provideing this forum, it's one of the best I have found on Argentina. And thank you other people for the many post in relpy to questions and comments.

A. D. Hudgens
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A. D. Hudgens
New member
Username: Hijo_de_tejas

Post Number: 8
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 12:54 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

A Sheesh,
I make an apology for the mistake above when I said Arial told me about the book: And the Money Kept Rolling In (and Out) by Paul Blustein. I had forgotten it was you on this thread. Thank you very much for the recommendation. It was an excellent read full of facts without putting the blame on only one group. It is highly recommended by me after reading it.
A. D. Hudgens
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Arial
Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 74
Registered: 10-2006


Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 5:11 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hello all you wonderful people!

True to my word I am reporting on my appointment in Buenos Aires at Immigration today. I am happy to say that it appears that this process is nearly complete.

My appointment was at 9:30 a.m. I arrived at 8:30. My assistant from AFN was already there. She had arrived early to take a number so our wait would be as brief as possible. But we were still there for two hours past the time of the appointment before the agent called my name. The place was a madhouse with too many people in a large but still uncomfortably crowded room. So it is no wonder it was a two-hour wait.

Although I was required to provide passport pictures to the embassy in Miami, they took their own picture today. The picture was 5 pesos. Then the long wait. The AFN representative, a darling young woman named Anabel, prepared me in advance for a private interview with the agent. She told me everyone else would have to leave and I would stay for the interview.

However, although my vocabulary is large enough that I can almost always achieve basic communication, conversation is a challenge. We immediately had communication problems. So she called the "chica" from AFN back in and the interview consisted of nothing more than signing in about five places, another fingerprinting session and instructions for picking up my DNI--which should be ready in two weeks to three weeks. I dont know if they were just so busy they skipped this final interview, or if she just gave up on my castellano. The fee for this meeting with the agent was another 50 pesos.

I know that some of you are planning to complete the DNI process on your own. If you can figure out how to maneuver through the process, it may be possible if you are reasonably proficient in the language. You may recall that even the agent who interviewed me in Miami spoke little English. I see this is a major obstacle. My son went with me to the Miami interview, and the AFN representative was with me today. For what I paid AFN, it has been well worth every cent in my case.

If you do manage it on your own, I hope that you will post the entire procedure, challenges, solutions, and so on, for those who may come after you. If anyone has any questions, please feel free to ask. I am happy to do whatever I can to help. Arial
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1083
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 6:40 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Arial, FELICITACIONES :-)
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Joshua
New member
Username: Jlcruz01

Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 7:14 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hello there,
Seems as though everyone is looking for permanent residence. I'm looking to spend a year in BsAs (moving this upcoming July). It's my understanding that I'll need a work visa, is there anything else?

Also, I have heard rumor of tourists getting a 90day tourist visa and every 90days going to Montevideo and coming back to and getting it renewed.

any help would be appreciated
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Christopher Henson
New member
Username: Sandiegochris

Post Number: 11
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 8:12 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi, Joshua. If you want to spend a year here, I wouldn't waste your energy (lots of it) on trying to get permanent residency. You can overstay your 90 day tourist visa by another 90 days a pay only a nominal 50 peso fine....you will need to leave the country (i.e. take the ferry to Montevideo or Colonia for the day and come back) after six months, and then do the same thing when you leave permanently. It is very easy here as when you leave the country and return, it resets the 90 day tourist visa "clock". Hope this helps. Best of luck.
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movingtoargentina.typepad.com
Intermediate Member
Username: Sapphos

Post Number: 105
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 3:08 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Joshua, I agree with Christopher. You will spend money and time to get residency and you're not guaranteed of it at the end. you can legally be in Argentina on your tourist visa and even still do some work under the radar. Getting a work visa is very difficult and costly and most companies won't go through the effort when they can find lots of labor right in Argentina. now if you can get a company to hire you that's great, however be careful for some companies that promise to hire you and do all your visa and work papers AFTER you get there (including paying your own ticket). I've talked to a couple of people who have gotten caught in that and were very disappointed. Also, you only need to leave the country every other time, on the odd times you can go to the migraciones office and request another 90 day stay (provided you have not already overstayed your visa).

Laura
Ebook Moving to and Living in Buenos Aires, Argentina
http://movingtoargentina.typepad.com
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Melisa
New member
Username: Canadian83

Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 12:34 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

great use to someone...I need that information
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Joshua
New member
Username: Jlcruz01

Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 2:12 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

thanks for the quick response and the great info. truly appreciated
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Markis Gardner
New member
Username: Markis

Post Number: 1
Registered: 3-2008
Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2008 - 11:05 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Many people mentioned AFN. I guess they went out of business. All the email addresses I tried no longer work. Even their website in English has problems.
Any other suggestions. Also, can I have some clarifications.
http://www.justlanded.com/english/Argentina/Tools/Just-Landed-Guide/Visas-Permits/Citizenship says "Uninterrupted residence of at least 2 years in Argentina, documented at the Dirección de Migraciones" - so it appears that 2 years is all you need to get citizenship in Argentina. I also found same thing on a government website. HOWEVER, MANY and I repeat MANY other sites including lawyer sites are saying it is 2 years AFTER permanent residence and that takes 3 years. So a total of 5 years.

Can someone please shed some light on the subject?

I am looking for citizenship in Argentina. I currently live in China with my girlfriend. Should I go to the Argentina Consulate here in China? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

(Message edited by admin on March 27, 2008)
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WTMendoza.com
Intermediate Member
Username: Welcometomendoza

Post Number: 209
Registered: 7-2007


Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2008 - 7:39 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Here is the horse's mouth:

http://www.argentina.gov.ar/argentina/portal/pagin as.dhtml?pagina=80

Requisitos para Obtener la Ciudadanía Argentina
Requisitos:
• Ser mayor de dieciocho años.
• Tener dos años de residencia ininterrumpida y documentada en el país, certificada por la Dirección Nacional de Migraciones.

Documentación Exigida:
• Partida de nacimiento legalizada por el consulado argentino en el país de origen.
• Fotocopia de D.N.I., cédula, pasaporte.
• Certificado de domicilio original.
• Justificación de medios de vida: contrato de trabajo, certificado de trabajo actual o recibo de sueldo. En caso de ser autónomo, fotocopia de comprobante de aportes.
• Si tiene hijos argentinos, acompañar fotocopia de las partidas de nacimiento y certificado de Migraciones.
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Arial
Intermediate Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 177
Registered: 10-2006


Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 11:10 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

AFN is not only in business but growing. They just handled my residency renewal last month. No idea what could be wrong with the web site but you can try

controller@afnvisas.com or

aperez@afnvisas.com or

apace@afnvisas.com

I have used them all recently and they all work! In case anyone wonders, I don't make anything by recommending them--or anything else I post here. Information is hard to come by in Latin America and I have made enough mistakes because of not having good information that I hope to make it easier for someone else!
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Keith Mangan
New member
Username: Kreation

Post Number: 18
Registered: 9-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 12:00 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Thomas;
I just went through the process of getting my DNI; and am going to pick it up this week.Overall the process was fairly easy; I really thought it was going to be hard but for me it seemed ok.
I'm Irish by the way and my wife is argentine so I dont know if the rules differ for the US.
I'll go through what we done exactly.

1.Got Civilly married in Ireland
2.Brought civil documents to Argentina.
3.Got Church Married here.
4.Returned to Ireland.
5.Got letter from Local Police stating I had no record.
6.Got original birth Cert.
7.Got orignal Marriage certificate.
8.Returned to Argentina.
9.In BA got Police report/Marriage certificate/ and Birth cert translated with official seal.
10.Went to Judicial Centre in BA;got fingerprints taken and passport viewed;translations reviewed;address confirmed
11.Recieved notification that I could proceed.
12.Went to Retiro to begin process; denied because of no Apostille.( they told me straight up; no fussing)
13.Went to Irish Embassy; sent police report;original birth cert and original wedding certificate to get Hague apostille..(should have got that done before in Ireland).
14.Returned to Retiro with my spouse;all documents and photocopies of all documents.
15.Twenty Mins in and out; documents approved; Dni approved; given premission to work etc..told to return within 45-90 days to recieve DNI paper..
16..I'll tell you later in the week; fingers crossed:-)

All in all fairly handy; my delays were my own fault for not having apostilles.Get all your documents apostilled at home and it will save you time.I'll get you addresses for everyone we used and where we went if you are going to do this in BA; if you like.

Depending on how busy you are their really isnt a need for hiring a company; I got the legwork done in 3-4 days and just had to wait for the apostilles; but maybe its handier for you to use the companies.

Good Luck with all

Keith
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WTMendoza.com
Intermediate Member
Username: Welcometomendoza

Post Number: 211
Registered: 7-2007


Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 12:18 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Arial, good to see you back on the boards - I am very sorry to hear about your mom.

I would like to take this opportunity to remind readers that there are two ways of getting your residnetial visa in Argentina:

1) Work with the Argentine embassy or consulate closest to you home city in your home country, if you qualify (easiest, fastest, and cheapest if you add these 3 factors together)

2) Get it here in Argentina from immigration and Registo Civil (more time, frustration, but cheap in $$), or work through a company like AFN in Argentina , pay some bucks, but they get it done, if you qualify.
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Arial
Intermediate Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 179
Registered: 10-2006


Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 5:30 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Mendoza, and thanks. I have to smile at your post which is, of course, no doubt on target. However, if you are in the US and your closest Argentine embassy or consulate happens to be in Miami, you better speak good castellano 'cause they don't speak English there! That is, unless something has changed! Trust me. I did mine in Miami! However, I am considering trying to do my renewal there in Buenos Aires next year. Of course I love my immigration attorney and his staff but like you said, it is cheaper if you do it yourself. I do think though that initiating the whole process is much better with an attorney. At least I wouldn't want to try it on my own.
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WTMendoza.com
Intermediate Member
Username: Welcometomendoza

Post Number: 217
Registered: 7-2007


Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 7:43 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

In theroy they have to speak to you in Engish because it's part of the agreed upon laws between embassies, etc..in the host country, etc. On the other hand probably some reality is that well..Miami is Miami..and whoose gonna follow up on these laws in practice..and in the end ya just gottta speak some Spanish if you are going to live in a Latin American country so I don't sympathize too much with that Miami situation...espeially since ya have to pracially speak spanish just to live in Miami:=)
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Arial
Intermediate Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 180
Registered: 10-2006


Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 9:20 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

. . . in the end ya just gottta speak some Spanish if you are going to live in a Latin American country . . .

Mendoza you are right! And since Miami is definitely a Latin American country, everyone there should speak at least a little Spanish. Hahahahahaha!
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Markis Gardner
New member
Username: Markis

Post Number: 2
Registered: 3-2008
Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 10:33 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I am TOTALLY confused. Many of you mention AFN to help with citizenship for Argentina. I finally got a hold of them - they told me it takes 5 years to get citizenship. However, according to http://www.argentina.gov.ar/argentina/portal/pagin as.dhtml?pagina=80 - it takes 2 years.

So, on one hand you have a government website that says it takes 2 years. On the other you have a company that specializes in helping people get citizenship and they say it will take 5 years. Which one is correct?

Thanks!
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Arial
Intermediate Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 181
Registered: 10-2006


Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 6:34 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Markis, I just tried to glance back through to see what you have written before to see if there is anything special about your situation. For example, if you had an Argentina wife I think that cuts the time.

Barring that, I think you are missing a step. Citizenship takes a couple of years AFTER you get permanent status. But it takes three years to get permanent status. There is no guarantee that you will get it in two years after permanent either. That decision is up to them. To be on the safe side I would make sure I lived in Argentina a full year before applying for citizenship, for example. Also they will want you to read for them in castillano and there may be other criteria.

It is easy to get confused by what you read on the 'net. That's one good reason for consulting a real attorney--on ANY legal issue.

But yes, five years is about right for most of us. Arial
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Arial
Intermediate Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 182
Registered: 10-2006


Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 6:49 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi again, I went to the web page to see what it actually says. Here is what I found:

They can apply for naturalization after residing for two consecutive years in the National Territory;

It does not say it takes two years for citizenship in Argentina as best I can see. It says you can APPLY after living here for two years. Even once you apply it does not say how long it will take. See the difference?

But also I think it has to be more than just residing in Argentina for two years on a tourist visa, for example, and leaving every 90 days. I think it has to be legal residency, but there again, I am not an attorney.

I hope this helps to clarify.
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WTMendoza.com
Intermediate Member
Username: Welcometomendoza

Post Number: 218
Registered: 7-2007


Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 7:27 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Arial - correct - not just living on a tourist visa, but on a RESIDENTIAL VISA.....I am of the belief that if things are not goign well, thn maybe bring in an attorney, but for the most part here in Argentina, if one actually follows the written rules , and the rules don't chnage at the last second, you can do it yourself. Also correct that by just applying, there is no guarantee. A judge will decide. And if the judge for some reason says no, then bring in the attorney. At leat that is the way I would do it.
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movingtoargentina.typepad.com
Intermediate Member
Username: Sapphos

Post Number: 122
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 8:09 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

WTN and Arial - I agree it is exactly that from what I've always been told...Theoretically on a tourist visa, you're legal for 3 months at a time but not for "living" there or gaining your residency. If someone wants to stay legally then a rentista or pensionado visa are a couple of the least painful ways to try to do it but are certainly not guaranteed. After the two years of being in Argentina then they can apply for residency.

I am one of those people who also recommended AFN. They are not overpriced and don't promise things that can't happen - two very important things to consider when shopping for someone to handle your visa papers. (and I don't receive anything from them for recommending them either.)

Laura
Ebook Moving to and Living in Buenos Aires, Argentina
http://movingtoargentina.typepad.com
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Arial
Intermediate Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 183
Registered: 10-2006


Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 8:34 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

With all due respect for everyone's theory, I hope that someone from the US with the idea of doing the process of citizenship him/herself will do it and inform this forum. Then we will be able to present solid experience and not theory.

It even makes a difference what country you are from. If you are from Spain, for example, Argentina LIKES you! You may well have an easier time.

I did the easiest of all residencies and I could not have gotten through when I did on my own. But if I had unlimited time and didn't care when I got it, I could have started over several times and perhaps finally got it. I have posted all this elsewhere on this forum.

There is a search option on this forum that anyone can use to research what has already been written on any subject including immigration so no need to keep repeating.

I may try to do the residency renewal next year on my own. The renewal requires an Argentina police report and proof of income. That sounds doable to me. But for the initial process, I prefer professional representation. I probably would use an attorney also if and when I apply for an Argentina passport.
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Arial
Intermediate Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 184
Registered: 10-2006


Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 10:23 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Laura posts: After the two years of being in Argentina then they can apply for residency.

Please, anyone, feel free to correct me if I am wrong. But you can apply for residency immediately. In fact, if you have any intention of getting citizenship, delaying application for residency just delays the entire process. Go immediately for legal residency. (I suspect Laura meant to say that after two years you can apply for citizenship ) Once you have been a legal resident for the required time, you can then apply for citizenship.
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Allison
New member
Username: Allcraz2

Post Number: 1
Registered: 4-2008
Posted on Monday, April 07, 2008 - 2:00 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi. I've been living in BsAs for over a year and have no current plans to move back to the U.S. I've been doing the 90 day tourist thing, but I would like to apply for residency. Is it true that I can just go to the Migrations office and apply? What do I need to have?
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Francisco
New member
Username: Pacopancho

Post Number: 1
Registered: 5-2008
Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 12:15 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

hi. i am new to this forum. it is great to have found it. i am an argentine citizen, but have lived most of my life outside of argentina. i got married to a british woman two years ago, and we were married in Australia. we are now thinking of moving to Argentina. How difficult is it for her to get permanent residency? Would it be hard for her to get citizenship? How long would that take? Any information people might have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Paco.
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1654
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 9:26 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hello Fransisco and welcome!

Regarding obtaing residency there are as many answers as there are forum members... For some it was fairly easy but in most cases it involved thorough paper work. I think if you browse through some of the threads about immigration you will find some useful guidance. The short answer will be to hire the right agency which will speed up and/or clarify issues in regards to the documents needed. I can't remember the name of the local agency but it has been posted several times here.
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larry Rogers
Member
Username: Larryr30

Post Number: 77
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 11:19 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hello to Everyone and Anyone,
It's been awhile since I have visited this site and was hoping that I could extract some useful info. Unfortunately, I have not found an experience that could be of great benefit and had trouble weaving my way through these particular forum thread.

Roberto....it's like ready an Argentina work contact, this forum! Thats pretty Ironic? just joking!

For this instance I would like to ask that anyone who has gone through the process of getting a work visa, if you would be so kind to help me with a few questions. Also, I will ask a few questions about permanent residency etc....

First:
Of all the information that has been stated between both Argentina and US embassies, it seems that Work Visas (to work in Argentina if US Citizen) can only be extracted from the Argentina Embassy in the US....Is this true? In conjunction with the extraction of a Work visa I would like to know if anyone as actually gotten the Permiso de Ingreso issued by Immigrations personally, not the employer! The reason that I ask this question is that after my visit with the "worlds slowest" representative of Immigrations this morning she stated that only the employer can extract the Permiso de Ingreso. As always, when we called the office two days before they stated that I could just come down and file out the information and show a valid passport. Well, that just didn't work....so I'm checking here to see if there is a "back door" that I need to know about!

Second:
Once gotten the "Permiso de Ingreso" from immigrations, what might be the pit falls in the Argentina embassy in the U.S. Given that everything is stamped correctly and all documents present, what might be the problems that could arise outside of a Economic crash and/or cue prohibiting the issue of a work visa?

Once again, any information would greatly be appreciated and used to the fullest of its extent.

Larry
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larry Rogers
Member
Username: Larryr30

Post Number: 78
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 11:22 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Roberto
Second line....

"Its like reading an Argentine Work contract, this forum thread!

Sorry for errors

P.d. thanks for posting my link awhile back!@
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larry Rogers
Member
Username: Larryr30

Post Number: 79
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 11:40 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I have visited all links posted and referenced to gain more knowledge of Residency visas. It's my understand that if I don't fall under any of the 5 catogeries:
Retired
Investor
Student
Work
Entrepreneur
or marrying into

Receiving residency is not possible in the country of Argentina?

Can this be verified or does someone here have a story to were they had received/receiving residency w/o lying, bribing or hiring a lawyer/judge/representative of Argentina? I would like to hear from anyone that has received there residency through other means than the categories stated above, if at all possible of it existing.

As can be seen in my questions and comments I'm extremely tired of dealing with the system. I'm a fluent Spanish speaker and have been living in Argentina for almost two years. It seems that I have absolutely no options in terms of becoming a citizen w/o marrying or bribing my way in. I just wanted to know, maybe a cry for help, is there anyway....I'm I missing something! Or is it that the "red tape" is just to strong for me to prevail!

Thanks
Larry
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Arial
Intermediate Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 230
Registered: 10-2006


Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 8:40 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Larry, I am hesitant to respond because you almost surely read my posts already, and I think perhaps you want to know about a work visa, which I know little about. Perhaps someone else on the forum can help you better than I.

I have residency but hired AFN Visas to help me, though as Roberto says, there is a lot of paperwork to obtain if you are from the U.S. in any event. It takes a lot of effort but, although frustrating for me, not as frustrating as for you I suspect. I think it is better if you have a professional helping you. they know the people at Imigraciones--plus they know the ropes. But they are not cheap! I don't think there is any payoff under the table. But I don't really know.
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WTMendoza.com
Advanced Member
Username: Welcometomendoza

Post Number: 263
Registered: 7-2007


Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 9:40 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

We are talking residency, not citizenship, right Arial?

AFN and www.argentinaresidency.com are two great services but yes indeed expesnive services, and they get the job done.

In my opinion they are for people who have the money and dont have the time to do it themselves.

What is for sure, is that if you have the time, and want to do it yourself, it can certianly be done. It is very procedural, and clear, if you do it from your home country and get the instructions from the Argentien embassy or consulate closest to your home town. Budget 2 to 3 months time in advance of your departure to Argentina.
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Arial
Intermediate Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 231
Registered: 10-2006


Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 1:56 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Legal assistance is more expensive now than when I began the process. It is soooo much easier with an attorney that knows what he or she is doing. And yet I agree with Mendoza's idea to do it yourself if you are fluent in spanish and think that you can handle it. It would be good to hear from those who have done it themselves if we have any on the forum. It might help those just beginning the process. Mendoza, did you do yours yourself?

Yes we are talking residency, as you say--which is the necessary first step. Unless, of course, you marry an Argentine!
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WTMendoza.com
Advanced Member
Username: Welcometomendoza

Post Number: 264
Registered: 7-2007


Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 2:25 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Even if you marry an Argentine, which I did, you still have to peform the residency step, and qualify as little as 3 years afterwards of the residency step, to apply for citizenship.

Actually , anybody can apply for citizenship as long as they have a few years of residency under their belt

Yes i did it myself, but I don't feel it is mandatory to speak spanish fluently. If needed , you can always bring an intetrpreotr to places you must go here in Argentina to follow though.

I know several people that have done it themselves, and also coached (for a fee) people how to specifically do it also. But frankly if you follow all the instructions, it can be relativcley easy to do it on your own.

Sometimes I think it's a good idea to do it yourself (instead of a lawyer like AFN) , if you have the time, because it also reveals the mood (temporary?) of government agencies, especially immigration, to you, which may be positive or negative insight into your future here. I have heard both nice stories and not so nice stories of how people are treated at immigration.

I wonder how it is in the USA.

Anyway, in the end, it's all good and fun.

(Message edited by admin on July 08, 2008)
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1708
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 12:45 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

> "Its like reading an Argentine Work contract, this forum thread!

You mean you will need another 10 lawyers to decipher it?

The link was due a long time ago. Sorry for delaying that.
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Arial
Intermediate Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 233
Registered: 10-2006


Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 6:29 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I was not allowed to bring an interpreter to Imigraciones in Argentina (but I did in Miami, U.S.A.). Actually I took an interpreter with me in Argentina both times (my appointment for my DNI and for my renewal) but they would not allow anyone to go in with me for my "interview." When I was called in for the interview, they said no one was allowed to go in with me. But when they realized how poor my castillano is, they just gave up trying. No interview! Sign here, fingerprints, rubber stamp, done!

So, with or without castillano, they gave it to me.
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WTMendoza.com
Advanced Member
Username: Welcometomendoza

Post Number: 265
Registered: 7-2007


Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 9:44 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Arial - thanks for the private note advising about my flooper above. I meant to say:

"Actually , anybody can apply for citizenship as long as they have a few years of residency under their belt."

(Roberto, can you change that above please?)

Arial, I find that amazing that you were not allowed to bring your intrepeter. Is this indeed a written policy of immigration that you have seen? Or is it the ever-persistent "uninformed employee syndrome" that thrives here in Argentina?

Why were you at BA immigration if you started the process at the Miami consulate?

All of my clients have gotten their visas through the Argentine embassy or consulate in their home country, and then finish the DNI application process through the Civil Registry offices (Registor Civil) here in Mendoza (where you can bring an intrepeter).

THEN, when it comes time to renew your visa after a year (or in some cases two years), they go to immigration here in Mendoza to renew it, where it is also allowed to bring an intrepeter.

It is ironic, in your case, that their denial of an intrepeter actually facilited the process for you - LOL!

But again, I am curious why you were at Imigration so soon if you got your visa in Miami. Or did you indeed mean the Civil Registry here, for the final steps of the DNI application?

As far as the rest of your comments in the private note you sent me, which I hope you don't mind me answering here in this open forum as I am pressed for time at the momemnt, it does seem true that anything is possible in Argentina. If you know the right people, or get to know the right person over time, or a govt employee sides with your issue on a personal basis (more frequent than one would think, in my experience)than it's all about "under the counter" for reasonable fes. BUT - I would not 100% count on this in advance. In other words, I would not plan on coming here on a 90 day visa, stay for years and then 100% hope you can find an under-the-counter service to get you residency quickly and outside the norm. In all liklelyhood, it is always highly possible and most probable. But the minute you plan on it in advance, it won't be available when you need it - this seems to be the rule of thumb here and probably anywhere. Know what I mean?
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1710
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 12:46 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

(Roberto, can you change that above please?)

Done.
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Arial
Advanced Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 262
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, September 29, 2008 - 5:36 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi WTM, i was looking for something else and just happened across your questions to me from back in July. I humbly apologize. I would never intentionally let questions go unanswered. Don't know how I missed it!

To answer: I was required to appear first in Miami with all of my paperwork. I think that is the procedure if you start the process in the U.S. The woman I met with in Miami was a lovely Argentina lady whose English was about as good as my Spanish. She warned me on the phone when I made the appointment that I would need an interpreter because she does not speak English.

She went over my papers, had me read and sign forms, then gave me a 'specially sealed and signed envelope, told me under no circumstances to break the seal and to give it to Imigraciones upon my arrival in Bariloche. In Bariloche, Imigraciones told me that if I did this in Bariloche it would take me nine months, but if I wanted to go to Buenos Aires it would take six weeks. So I went to Buenos Aires. It took 3 weeks to get my appointment in BsAs. There they completed the process.

I have no idea if the refusal to allow the interpreter is normal policy or not. My attorney told me they would not be allowed to go in to the interview with me. His assistant did ask when we arrived at Imigraciones But they said no. (giggle-giggle) After dealing with my castillano at the time, they just might have relaxed that rule! I waited another three weeks after the interview before I could return and pick up my DNI.

Of course it's been almost two years now and, as you know, it IS Argentina. Who KNOWS how they do it today?!
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WTMendoza.com
Advanced Member
Username: Welcometomendoza

Post Number: 287
Registered: 7-2007


Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 - 8:27 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Arial, better late than never - no worries!:-)

That 3 weeks is a pretty good lead time for BA for the DNI competion process started in Miami - current lead times are rnning 3 to 4 months. And yes it is true that had you don it from Baroliche - you may STILL be waiting, but some people choose this , especially people that have retired here. Obviously you had to give a BA address to get that DNI in BA. Not always an option for some people. And yes ,the prcoess is still the same today - cheers!
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Ana
New member
Username: Elvislover

Post Number: 7
Registered: 5-2008
Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 - 4:01 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

OMG, I just read this whole thread and I'm still lost. Here is my situation:

I married an Argentine and have a 2 1/2 year old son with him. I am a US citizen in Texas, so is our 2.5 year old. We don't plan to move to Argentina until around 5 years. We are only married in the US, but plan to marry in Argentina too.

1.)Can we do anything for myself and my son as far as getting dual citizenship while still living in the US and before our eventual move?

2.) More complicated: MY first son is my Argentine's husband step-child. If I can ever get Argentine citizenship would I ever be able to get my 6-yr-old citizenship too?

Thanks!
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Gigi Sehr
New member
Username: Gsehr

Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 - 8:19 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I will be applying for citizenship soon, based on my marriage to a native Argentine. I would like to preface the following by saying that I do NOT recommend getting Argentine citizenship because for practical purposes having permanent residency is almost exactly the same (except that you are not obligated to vote, and children of Argentine citizens who become citizens can never renounce or lose their citizenship).

You cannot become a citizen from outside the country, because you have have a judge approve your citizenship, and obviously there are no Argentine judges outside Argentina. My mother in law went to the Juzgado Federal (Federal court) where I have to begin the process, and they told her that in general I would need four documents. This is what you need in order to become a citizen based on 2 YEARS RESIDENECY:
1) DNI (documento nacional de identidad)
2) Certificado de domicilio (address certificate, you can get this at your local police station which you can look up on the internet)
3) Birth certificate with:
a) apostille
b) translation by official translator (search for Colegio de
Traductores Publicos to find one near you for your language)
c) certification of the translation (check the same website)
4)"Acreditación de medios de vida" You have to prove you can support yourself. Ways of fulfilling this requirement include (I have no idea how to get this documents, ask you boss):
(if you work for a company)
a) certificado de trabajo (work certificate) or
b) recibo de sueldo (salary receipt) or
-note: if you work for a private company, the signature of
your boss needs to be certified at a bank
(if you are self employed)
a) certificado de ingresos (certificate of income)or
b) receipt from last tax payment

Now, this applies only to those applying based on residency. I still have to find out how the process works based on marriage, because theoretically you don't need permanent residence to do this (according to the law, but who knows in practice). I'll update you guys once I do the application.

About bringing your stuff to Argentina: You can bring all your personal belongings to Argentina tax-free by applying for the "certificado de residencia" at your local consulate. The only exception is your car or motorcycle, the tax on cars is 80% of the car's value.

Good luck!
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Ana
New member
Username: Elvislover

Post Number: 8
Registered: 5-2008
Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

^^^ Gigi,

You said you DON'T recommend getting Argentine citizenship, but you are applying for it? Thank you for posting the requirements for this. What are the requirements for ReSIDENCY? Will you please find out if possible, what are the requirements or process based on MARRIAGE only? What do I do about my 2 1/2 year old? Would he automatically be or be able to get Argentine citizenship because he is son of an Argentino?

Thanks so much and GOOD LUCK!!
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Bill Howard
Member
Username: Veritas01

Post Number: 55
Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 - 4:23 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Ana I am in the same situation. I am married to an Argentine. We have a 15 month old son. My wife recently received her US Citizenship after 7 long years, thousands of dollars and many trips to the INS office. If you think becoming an Argentine citizen is tough try becoming an American.

I plan to move to Argentina for a few years about 3 years from now. I am thinking I will get a permanent visa but have my son get Argentina citizenship. I am far older than my wife and just being able to live in Argentina without the hassle of coming and going is ok with me. Being able to get a DNI would be nice too.

For my son however citizenship would give him the option of returning to Argentina in the future and going to university there. That to me adds a nice option for him. I really respect the quality of education in Argentina. I looked over my wife's syllabus for English Literature. I was a Humanities Major at Providence College in Rhode Island. By far her class was more comprehensive and far more difficult. Plus going to university in Argentina is far different than in the US. No dorms. No sports teams. No clubs. No fluff. No course other than in your major. Pretty spartan but they focus on education. Go figure. Plus in addition to passing the course by passing exams and handing in assignments you have to pass oral exams on the course material. And this is undergraduate.

But I digress. I am hoping to get my visa here at the Argentine consulate in New York and apply for my son to get a permanenet visa too. Once we are in Argentina we can work on the citizenship for my son.

Ironically my wife will have an issue. She exits the US and enters Argentina on a US passport? Same 90 day limitation. If she enters on her Argentine passport no problem. But when she returns to the USA..they will ask..where are you coming from? Some people tell me that US immigration understands the situation and if you show both passports they will let you back in....I will have to check that one to be sure.
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Ana
New member
Username: Elvislover

Post Number: 9
Registered: 5-2008
Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 - 4:46 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Bill,

Thank you for the reply. We are totally on the same page. So far it's been 3 years and still trying to get my husband's paperwork too! The permanent residency sounds like the way to go and for your son to get Argentina citizenship.

I completely agree that the quality of education in Argentina is quite outstanding. My husband tells me that he had to take oral exams too. He says over here (U.S.) it's a piece of cake compared to the expectations and requirements in Argentina. I'm impressed by his knowledge of so many things.

So, you will get permanent visas for you and your son and then work out the other things in Argentina. I hope it all works out smoothly. Good luck and please keep us posted.

Thanks!
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Álvaro Conforte Dorneles
New member
Username: Alvinho

Post Number: 2
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 - 10:05 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I'm Brazilian and as far as I know there's an agreement between both countries that make citizenship easier after 3-month stay as a tourist...is that true?
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Arial
Advanced Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 293
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 6:32 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I am due to renew my residency again sometime around March. I am thinking of doing it myself this time and save the $900. I know that I must produce an apostiled copy of my Social Security printout and a copy of a recent bank statement showing deposit of the funds and a copy of my passport and perhaps my Argentina ID (not sure but I can find out). I always just deliver it to my attorney and then show up at Imigraciones on the designated day to pick everything back up.

Can anyone give me a step by step description of what I actually must do in Argentina if I do this myself? Sure would appreciate it if you can. Arial
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WTMendoza.com
Advanced Member
Username: Welcometomendoza

Post Number: 342
Registered: 7-2007


Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 7:57 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Arial, good to see you , I would check directly with Imigraciones / Registro Civil on this matter - bring a local friend that can help interpret - the minute you get this critical current answer off a message board, they could change something minor which could delay and confuse you. Did you process the inital residency through BA or somewhere in Patagonia? cheers
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Arial
Advanced Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 294
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, December 15, 2008 - 5:49 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks, Mendoza. Processed through Buenos Aires. This will be my last renewal before I apply for permanent. The first time was complicated but since then doesnt seem to involve much. Thanks for the advice.
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Living in Patagonia
Member
Username: Soulskier

Post Number: 59
Registered: 9-2008
Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2008 - 11:09 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Please keep us posted. We are trying to renew in Bariloche on our own, and it has become a part time job, pero vale la pena.
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Arial
Advanced Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 298
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2008 - 3:24 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

If you are now renewing in Bariloche, I will be looking to YOU. I can be as late as April renewing, and may be, this time. Could you give us a blow by blow description? Or keep me informed off forum if it might be boring to those not renewing. I sure would appreciate it. Might help me decide if I want to spend the $900 for that . . . or something more fun! And who knows? With inflation I might save even more!
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VGB Donna
New member
Username: Ixchel

Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2008 - 3:32 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Please post the blow by blow description on the forum. I will be renewing someday also!
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Living in Patagonia
Member
Username: Soulskier

Post Number: 62
Registered: 9-2008
Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 6:58 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

The blow by blow description would take up alot of time, both to write and to read. I'll give the short version.

We originally received our investment visa by using the finca we bought in San Rafael, Mendoza. We have since sold the finca and bought a property in Bariloche with 3 structures on it. We live in one and rent the other two. We are trying to use our new investment to renew the residency. Migraciones says it is possible, as we are creating jobs, etc here. However, we have to get a "habilitacion de turisimo". Since the property never had a "final de obra" we first had to get that. So, many pesos in fines later, we are close to being able to resubmit the renewal with the new investment. In the meantime, they keep giving us 3 month precario extensions.

The positive of using the Bariloche office is there is never a wait, though everything then gets sent to BA for the decision making.

Estamos en tramite, the story of our lives!
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Arial
Advanced Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 305
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2008 - 10:37 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

There has been a change in my residency requirements that might be of interest to others here.

My temporary residency qualification in the past was based on my Social Security income. I was required to provide a statement from Social Security showing my SS income, notarized and apostilled by the Secretary of State of Florida, USA, together with the last two monthly statements from my US bank verifying that the money was deposited there.

That has changed. I was notified by my attorney yesterday that, in order to qualify this year, I must open an Argentina bank account and change my SS to be direct-deposited into the Argentina bank instead.
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Living in Patagonia
Member
Username: Soulskier

Post Number: 67
Registered: 9-2008
Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2008 - 11:37 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Wow, that is big news! I think there are a lot of people that are about to get a rude awakening.

I also thought the rentista might be affected by people's shrinking paper assets as of late.
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WTMendoza.com
Advanced Member
Username: Welcometomendoza

Post Number: 350
Registered: 7-2007


Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2008 - 12:06 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

hmmm, i don't think it is technically possible to direct deposit SS funds into a foreign bank account, is it?

Also, I am not aware of this change of procedure on a retiree visa, i would love to see the official written scoop on this, with all due rspect to your attorney.

On the other hand the webmaster over at http://www.migraciones.gov.ar/ has been doing a great job this year updaing it.
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Arial
Advanced Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 308
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2008 - 9:15 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

You raise a good question, Mendoza. I mentioned that very thing to my son and he told me this is common. Quite a few governments encourage retirees in order that their money be spent in the country and so they require that the money come directly to a local bank. I will soon find out since I need to try to change it in order to qualify in March--assuming that my attorney is correct. Let us know if you find out anything different and I will do the same, particularly for the benefit of those who are trying to handle their own renewal. So far I have had little to worry about once I got all my original paperwork done. I just do what I am told and show up in Buenos Aires and everything is done for me.

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