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James Dawson
New member
Username: James_d

Post Number: 1
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 12:04 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Roberto and everyone else

I was impressed with your very informative and helpful site and therefore I wanted to get some advice on a few different topics. First things first.

I needed your or anyone else’s opinions on the safety and fun of certain neighbourhoods. I’ve heard some stories recently of quite a lot of crime in certain parts of Palermo (Alto especially), coupled with a severe lack of police presence. What areas of Palermo are safer than others?

I’m thinking about renting either an apartment just off Paraguay street in Palermo Viejo or off Billinghurst and Cabrera in normal Palermo. The first option seems a lot closer to the subway and the main nightlife area although the second option might be quieter, albeit further from the subway. Any recommendations as to the two different options in Palermo and which parts are safer than others.

Or does anyone think Recoleta is a far better option than Palermo, as it seems to be preferred by many travellers.

All advice appreciated.
Thanks
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ruggero
New member
Username: Bart

Post Number: 19
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 12:34 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hello James!
Palermo is the largest neighborhood in BA. Portenos classified sub-neighborhoods for palermo, but this is un-official and sometimes funny: palermo viejo, palermo nuevo, palermo freud, palermo chico, barrio parque, alto palermo, palermo hollywood, bosques de palermo, and even las canitas and la imprenta.
Regarding safety, this won't vary too much from one area to another, las canitas for example is very safe because of the militar and police presence. In my oppinion, when renting an apartment there are several things to consider including location, but also depends on the specific intersection where you are, some streets are nicer than others as the building itself may vary a lot, it also vary the apartment itself. Renting in palermo, recoleta, puerto madero, it's very similar and also consider you'll be riding from one place to another, so it won't vary too much on safety issues.
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 597
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 12:59 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I think ruggero nailed it.

In another forum Paul Ghidossi -who just signed here- mentioned he considers crime not to be a big issue among tourists for thieves and robbers are looking for bigger fish. Will you be renting for a short stay? If so, I would take just the normal precautions for a big city and don't worry too much. Otherwise, he might have something to add since he himself and some of his relatives have been the subject of many assaults. You can pm him.

Lack of police presence has always been an issue, except where there is a PD. And even if they are around you just don't know. They too are underpaid.
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Milagros Miceli
New member
Username: Milita

Post Number: 5
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 1:03 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi James!

Wellcome.

OK...first of all, let me tell you something about the crime rate in Palermo: recently there has been a murder of a kid in Palermo. He died in fight with other kids when they were going home from a club. Since then, people started talking (as they allways do on these cases) about the lack of security and police. But the cold numbers says that thereīs only been a murder. It is not true that there are certain areas safer that others.

I donīt know your age or prefferences but if you are looking for fun (clubs, bars, pubs) the best option is Palermo viejo.

The subway factor is the first thing Iīd pay attention to. Personaly, I hate traffic, so subway and train are my best options. Consider that Buenos Aires is a huge city, there are a lot of interesting places to visit, so if you donīt want to waste your time by travelling, pick the closest to the subway apartment.

About Recoleta: Itīs a classy neighbourhood, very nice architecture but far more serious than Palermo.

Let us know if you have any other questions...
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Tom Woodson
Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 67
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 1:25 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I consider Puerto Madero one of the safest places anywhere. The Coast Guard is the police there and they are everywhere.
My very limited contacts with police in Argentina, asking for directions etc, has been positive.

Viva Italy,

Hasta Luego
Tom
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James Dawson
New member
Username: James_d

Post Number: 5
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 5:05 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

To all four of you

Thanks so much for your comprehensive replies. They were all a great help and although I am never one to really worry about safety its good to know peoples opinions who actually live or have been there.

So thanks again.
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Isaac Ho
New member
Username: Lonewolf

Post Number: 4
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 5:52 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi all,

I would like to enquire the possibility of renting a studio or one room apartment in barrios near the centro; Palermo, Congresso, San Telmo, etc, for a budget of USD200 - USD350.

I would be coming to BA for at least 9 months and is looking for cheap rentals.

Thank you,
Isaac
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 599
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 10:40 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Isaac, for that term I can get you a 2 bedrooms in Congreso for usd $450/month and 1 month deposit. If interested, drop a line here or pm me.
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Isaac Ho
New member
Username: Lonewolf

Post Number: 5
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 6:45 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Roberto,

I only need a 1 bedroom apartment, as I would be staying alone. :-) USD450 is towards the limit of my budget. I'd rather rent a smaller room but priced towards USD200-350.

Thanks,
Isaac
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ruggero
New member
Username: Bart

Post Number: 21
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 2:10 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I know about an apartment for US$200 and they also pay you 1 peso for every rat you kill and 3pesos per each hundred roaches you kill. What an opportunity!!!
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 603
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 2:29 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Jokes aside, you *could* find something but will need to visit many real estate agents and walk the streets a lot. I doubt you will find something that meets your requirements over the internet. Prices of 2002-2004 are a thing of the past (excuse the redundancy).
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Tom Woodson
Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 70
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 2:59 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Isaac
Since you are only looking for one room I may be able to help. At least I will do more than just ridicule you.
Give me some info about what you are going to be doing and a little bit of open information about yourself. I have a friend who might rent a room to you. Since I am not in the apartment rental business there won't be any commissions.
I am told that the average wage per month for many Argentines is 600 pesos or two hundred US a month, it seems to me you could find a good person who would rent a room to you for that much.

Hasta Luego
Tom
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 604
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 3:08 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Very generous, Tom!

To prevent possible misreadings... I would add that last month I was told college graduates with minimal skills could get hired for usd $600 as a starter, although I am sure some people are still making usd $200. That will be the bottom of the barrel though, if anyone makes that little at all.
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Tom Woodson
Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 71
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 3:22 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Roberto
You might be surprised.
But I agree that it is the bottom of the barrel if you mean paywise , service industry people and such. They are certainly not the bottom of the barrel human being wise, just good people doing the best they can. I was given that figure(600 pesos) by some friends who were employers.

Isasc
Check out this apt for US $280 a month


http://www.sublet.com/spider/SupplyDetails.asp?Sup plyID=247071&SupplierID=204330&state=South+America &city=Argentina&StateCount=More


Hasta Luego
Tom
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Tom Woodson
Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 72
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Isaac
Here is one for US $250 a month.


It's not the Ritz but a big ol' American mouse trap and a can of Raid will probably be all you need.
http://www.sublet.com/spider/SupplyDetails.asp?Sup plyID=375322&SupplierID=280262&state=South+America &city=Argentina&StateCount=More

One in Santelmo for $300
http://www.sublet.com/spider/SupplyDetails.asp?Sup plyID=363227&SupplierID=276172&state=South+America &city=Argentina&StateCount=More


one in Argentina, Buenos Aires (Valle 1021/Cachimayo)for $300
http://www.sublet.com/spider/SupplyDetails.asp?Sup plyID=214613&SupplierID=185703&state=South+America &city=Argentina&StateCount=More

Good luck

hasta luego
Tom
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 605
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 3:48 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Tom,

I have helped, donated, rescued, cared for more people (and animals) than you can think of. I have nothing but respect for anyone working to make a living. Yes, you can bet I meant 'bottom-of-the-barrel' paywise and no personal judgment attached. But I re-read that sentence again and I see how it could be interpreted that way, so my apologies. Please read: "low end"
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Tom Woodson
Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 73
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 4:07 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Roberto
Not to worry.
I did not think you meant anything bad by that comment.
Others might but I have come to know your posts and you do not make derogatory ones.

Hasta luego Amigo
Tom
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Ken Kerr
New member
Username: Doctork

Post Number: 4
Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 4:15 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Roberto,
You say that the rents of 2004 are no longer the norm. However, is it possible to offer the landlord the entire 6 month's rent in advance, in American cash, and asking for a reduced rent? If so, how much of a break do you think a 6-month renter may get on an apartment listed for U$S 900 per month? If he offers a stack of $100 US bills on the spot?
Ken
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 606
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 5:28 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Ken, this is a complete *guess*...

I think any argentine will be happy to see so much green on the table at the start for 2 reasons:

1. Tenants problems are notorious in that many never pay at some point.
2. Evictions are lengthy, difficult and sometimes useless.

Although each case is personal, I think you have a good chance to get a good discount. As an argentine, I would offer one. However, you may not be able to get away with the safety deposits. As you can imagine, landlords would want to cover any expenses in case you destroy their apartment... another notorious headache (not with foreigners, but we argentines have that ingrained in our DNA after numerous bad experiences). Again, take anything I say with a grain of salt.

(Message edited by admin on July 12, 2006)
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Ken Kerr
New member
Username: Doctork

Post Number: 5
Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 6:35 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Roberto,
Is American money a bonus, or will Argentine Pesos be as interesting to landlords? I ask this because I wonder how much U$S I need to carry.
Ken
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 610
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 8:04 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Best advise, ask the landlord what currency he/she wants to be paid in.

Whoever takes your money on the receiving end will make sure the exchange rate favors them. If you pay in pesos, more than likely the exchange rate will be calculated in a way that helps their cause, not yours. And they may ask for slightly more pesos you originally considered. In addition, when getting your pesos you will receive the funds 'at the offer', perhaps having to change even more dollars. In the end, you may lose a little bit of change in dollar terms.
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Tom Woodson
Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 76
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 9:38 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

One thing about US dollars, merchants tend not to take dollars in less than $20 denominations. I normally use twentys and take the change in pesos.

Hasta luego
Tom
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ruggero
New member
Username: Bart

Post Number: 22
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 11:52 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

As an owner and being living in Buenos Aires I would like to express my personal oppinion regarding this thread with all the respect that you guys deserve and also to inform those guys that have either little or no knowledge about BA :
#1, "one in Argentina, Buenos Aires (Valle 1021/Cachimayo)for $300 " it's not a nice neighborhood. Sure, there ARE rentals for US$300 and less, but the question was for safer / touristy neighborhoods. Let me tell you that La Boca and San Telmo are touristy places but this covers only a couple of streets, anything beyond it's another different story. Perhaps finding rentals for those prices it's not because you are a smart finder, it's just because the value it's cheaper.
#2, You need to be cautious when interpreting the apartments rentals rankings in BA as the market basket is specific to a short term furnished apartment. The relationship it's 2,5 to 3 times more when renting short term. This is because the short term includes; building expenses, telephone line (well not on the cheaper ones), light, gas, water bills, and furniture, and also the risk. If I rent my apartment to an Argentinean the minimal term is for 2 years and they must guarantee the rental with a relative that owns another property either equal or bigger than my property, and if the teneant does not pays the rent (or make any damage) I can lawsuit both the teneant and the relative and the court may order the guaranty to be sold in an auction, plus they have to pay interest and fees, my attorney and taxes.
Of course the problem is many beleive they are 'smarter' than others, so I've heared many guys complaining that the rentor didn't returned the damages deposit, so basically the rentor technique is to advertise cheaper than competitors but at the end they rent higher, and there always be another 'smart guy' who's looking for a cheap deal around so lack of reputation seems not to be a problem.
Others just rent the apartment and put there the furniture their granparents throwed away on the 60's.
#3, as a rentor I take euros, pesos and dollars and what I do it's to balance half and half from the spread. I really don't care if my clients pay in pesos or dollars. When my clients are happy with the service they tip the maid, and that has more value for me than making a couple of pesos with the dollar/peso spread since when my maid is happy she will serve the apartments on weekends and hollydays so my clients feel happier and they get back to my apartments
#4, Many owners would prefer to avoid the hassle of having the apartment empty and they would make a discount for a longer term, but lately there are houndreds of agencies that advertise furnished apartments, so an owner is now capable to give the apartment to many agencies and it's always more convenient to rent weekly than monthly (since in general 3 weeks equals the amount of 1 month) so if I'm able to find 4 guys that rent one week each one I will be making more money and if I rent the apartment just 3 weeks and I have the apartment empty it's not bad since it's a week of saving on power and light, gas, and less hassle. Finally, if someone ask me for a discount for 6 months of rental I would say yes as long as personally I prefer to move forward but I know that many others don't.
In addition, renting apartments it's like finding a girlfriend, there are blondies, brunettes, redheads but each one is different, it's a private transaction person to person.
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Isaac Ho
New member
Username: Lonewolf

Post Number: 6
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 3:21 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi,

Thank you Roberto, Tom and Ruggero for the wonderful advice.

I do not need that luxurious an apartment actually, the ones posted by Tom looks superb, just what I want; in fact I would not mind even lower quality apartments... But the ones you posted on the net are around USD200 so Tom you need to tell me if there are that many roaches and rats as what Ruggero has said. ;)

Security wise, I am willing to bear the risk. I'm 26 years old and I've been in the security service for the past 7 years. So taking care of myself should not a problem. I know this doesn't mean anything much but BA is still quite safe no?

Now, I want to continue my education and also pursue my interest in Tango, I have chosed to come BA to study tango and philosophy, looking at enrolling full time into a local university which means at least 3 to 4 years. And I want to stay near the tango hub, which is San Telmo.

Of course there are some obstacles along the way. I have not confirmed my University place yet. But at least I would be here for the next 9 months to learn castellano. And I have limited budget; my limited savings and parents' support. Hence I need choose the places carefully.

In a nutshell, I'm going to live a poor student's life for the next 4 years, juggling tango, studies and maybe some part time work; preparing to rough it out.

This is what I feel, if ordinary Argentines can live in such circumstances happily, why can't I? I'm no royalty nor have I led a luxurious life thus far. In fact the nature of my job for the past 7 years required me to spends days and nights in the jungles without a bath or change of clothes.

Once again, thanks for the help.

Saludos,
Isaac

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