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Swede
New member
Username: Swede

Post Number: 5
Registered: 9-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 3:04 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Ive been reading lots of interesting articles about buying properties in Argentina, but most of them describes it quit hard for foreigners to move here, buy apartments, have it rented out thanks of lots of taxregulations, paperworks etc. Ive been in Uruguy a couple of times and would really like to hear if its the same here regarding this, and doing business here in general?
For example if you buy one or two apartments in Montevideo, is it easy to rent it out ? Is it a large scale of tourist coming to Montevideo or just in Punta ? We(me and my girlfriend) are choosing between Argentina and Uruguay right now, better pricelevel in Argentina for ex, but it seems more difficult here, is this correct according to you guys?

Thank your very much in advance.
Patrick
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 987
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 4:40 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Patrick, I think your assessment is quite correct.

In fact, Uruguay has been called the 'Switzerland" of South America for specific reasons (bank secrecy, etc). It is also worth mentioning that Uruguay has a free zone that allows foreign companies to operate as in 'offshore'. Put everything together and the differences between countries are clear. I can't talk specifics as I do not have personal experience with renting space cross the pond but I will not be surprised to find out that it is a lot easier over there. I would not know either how good of a rental market is or how strong and varied is the tourism industry... Their beaches are some of my favorites!
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Orlando Martinez
New member
Username: Bracsim

Post Number: 11
Registered: 9-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 6:17 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

The truth is I like argentina better, but I think Uruguay is more secure, comunism is taking over in latin america and maybe argentina could fall into Hugos Chavez dream (Remeber Che Guevara), if I was you I`ll go to Uruguay.
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Orlando Martinez
New member
Username: Bracsim

Post Number: 12
Registered: 9-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 6:24 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Let`s start all over again, I mean (remember Che Guevara), people in Argentina like socialism and comunism, in other word extrem left and Argentina could fall in Hugo Chavez dream of becoming comunist.My choice will be Uruguay, good luck.
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Apartmentsba.com
Intermediate Member
Username: Saint

Post Number: 131
Registered: 5-2005


Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 6:42 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Trust me. I own businesses and multiple pieces of real estate (both land and houses) in both countries and Uruguay is head and shoulders easier than Argentina. Argentina's banking system is a JOKE!!! Uruguay has excellent banking systems and they do NOT charge rediculous wire transfer fees. All in I've purchased a couple hundred thousands of dollars worth of properties in Uruguay and they charged me NOTHING to get the money there. The processes are similar to buy although Uruguay is much more streamlined and a foreigner can buy simply with a passport.

Definitely there are amazing real estate potential in both countries. I actually own much more real estate in Argentina but I'm continuing to add to my personal portfolio and that of my clients in Uruguay where there is a lot of potential. The rental season is VERY short but I also bought my house to use it. I use it at least a long weekend every month and it's a good get away. Very safe and friendly.

Please keep in mind however that they are starting some new laws in July 2007. Formally before there was no capital gains tax but they are starting one in Uruguay in July 2007. Also, keep in mind the utilities are sky high in Uruguay compared to Argentina. The cost to maintain my house there is about u$s 1,000 per month while it's at least 3 X cheaper in Argentina. In Punta del Este for example, the water bill is incredibly high. My last water bill for my house which is less than 2,000 sq. feet was U$s 250 for one month. In Argentina for a same size property I pay about u$s 13 per month.

My electricity bills are high. Internet is about u$s 100 per month there for fast service where I live. In Argentina about u$s 30 / month. If you have a house you have gardener fees as the lawns are really manicured there. I have a pool guy that comes every month, etc. Apartment condo fees are expensive too.

There are advantages and disadvantages but from a red tape standpoint, Uruguay is head and shoulders better.
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Tom
Advanced Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 319
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 10:27 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Apts.
With all the high costs in Uruguay, what does it have that other places don't.

The way you describe it Argentina is hands down the better choice.

This blog is about Argentina, right?

Tell us about the "red tape" in Argentina and how to deal with it, por favor. You have the experience.
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Tom
Advanced Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 320
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 11:03 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Orlando
Maybe we visited different Argentina's. Are there Two.

The people I have talked to in my many visits over the last 3 or four years are not communists. They are definitely a voting population. I am told that the law requires Argentine citizens to vote.

There are socialists, moderates and conservatives, a "melting pot" from Europe.

I don't see Argentina becoming another Venezuela. It is being considered more and more a major player on the world market which is definitely not a communist invention. The Argentine Armed forces will not sit still and let a true communist government take over. Argentina is, in my opinion, the most stable country in South America along with Brazil. In conversations with a friend who is in Argentine intelligence I am confident the country is firmily in the group of mainstream democratic nations. We talked about his group and the CIA. He said the CIA was the only people who liked them. He was joking somewhat of course but the two nations share a lot of common interests. It was the US who told the world bank to give Argentina some leeway on their repayments a couple of years ago.

Just because a leader wants to help his own people does not make him a socialist or a communist.

Communism is a proven failed system of government. Chavez will go the way of all of his banana republic predecessors. The world is being forced to go the way of cleaner fuels and alternatives to oil. His oil revenues will run out someday. One of his biggest customers, if not the biggest, is the US.
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Apartmentsba.com
Intermediate Member
Username: Saint

Post Number: 132
Registered: 5-2005


Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 11:13 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

There are good and bad things about Argentina. I'm not saying one place is better than the other. Each has it's own pros/cons. I'm just saying what advantages Uruguay has with their banking system. These boards are about sharing information. I honestly don't have enough hours in the day to tell of all the "red tape" there is in Argentina and how to deal with it. I spent a few years researching the laws and tens of millions of dollars in purchases here on real estate and other businesses. I've shared quite a bit of information but really those that are serious about dealing with all the red tape setting up a business here can retain me if they want. Cheers.

Both places have been good to do business in but Argentina definitely has a lot of red tape and corruption. Never forget that Argentina is ranked as having worse corruption than Algeria and Gabon!!!

http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/survey s_indices/cpi/2006
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 990
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 11:30 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Ok, I had to take a look at it... If anyone else is as unworldly as I am and need a better grasp on what red tape means here is some explanation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_tape.
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Arial
Junior Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 47
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 12:08 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I understand the interest of some contributors to keep to the subject of Argentina. However, some of us here are interested in these comparisons and who better to make them than those intimately familiar with both Argentina and Uruguay. I am glad the subject was suggested and am very interested in this exchange! Arial
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Apartmentsba.com
Intermediate Member
Username: Saint

Post Number: 133
Registered: 5-2005


Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 12:16 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks Arial,

You will find that MANY people are interested in doing business in Uruguay. Really, there are many ancillary benefits to doing business in Uruguay vs. Argentina. Many of those that prefer a more laid back lifestyle can find it in Uruguay. A major part of ANY business is typically finances and money so naturally Uruguay being head and shoulders above Argentina presents many huge benefits. Keep in mind that Argentina charges upwards of 2.5% for foreigners to legally bring in dollars into Argentina. There is NO free way to get money into Argentina for foreigners. I'm building a hotel here and the building alone was u$s 3.5 million. I paid over u$s 65,000 just in wire transfer fees!!!! In Uruguay I would have paid u$s 0.

I've purchased almost u$s 65 million in various real estate in Argentina the past 4 years. That represents wire transfer and exchange fees of over u$s 1 million! In Uruguay I've bought a few million and it cost me NOTHING to wire money into their country. They understand that foreign capital and investments are a good thing and make it easy.

Also, Uruguay is just a really beautiful place. Cities like Montevideo and Punta del Este are ripe for future expansion and those of us that can see that vision are getting into that marketplace buying businesses, land, buildings and real estate there.

Uruguay is getting a benefit with all these millions of tourists to it's neighboring Argentina each year because many of them are crossing the river to discover Uruguay is a jewel as well.

Cheers all.
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Tom
Advanced Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 321
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 4:23 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Apts.
As far as the corruption issue, sometimes the truth hurts.

The 2.5% tax on bringing in money, that is the first I have heard about that. Maybe that is one of the reasons people like to deal in cash when buying land.
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Apartmentsba.com
Intermediate Member
Username: Saint

Post Number: 134
Registered: 5-2005


Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 4:33 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Tom,

Yes, the truth hurts sometimes. For as much as Argentina likes to compare itself to it's European roots, from a corruption standpoint, it has more in common with many AFRICAN nations.

I assumed from your many posts that you had already done business here in Argentina??

It doesn't matter if you are dealing with CASH (99% of my purchases have been in cash). The laws are still the same. ALL money coming into Argentina from abroad needs to legally go through the Central Bank. There is a cost for that. This is amongst the most basic things for foreigners doing business here. I would have assumed that you would have already known this from the vast number of posts.

Even if you were to carry a suitcase full of cash or bring it in Free via Uruguay, when you go to sell the government can still ask how you brought the money in and if you can't show it went through the Central Bank you can have issues.

The fundamentals are understanding what the laws here are. Before late 2006 the government wasn't really concerned how you brought in the money but I'd say after October 2006 the government is more careful about this issue as they don't want people like drug traffic funds, money launderers, terrorists, etc. using Argentina as a flow through.

I'm not saying it's 2.5%. It can be UP to 2.5%. The rate flutates from month to month. Also, keep in mind if the owner of the land will accept pesos (which is almost non-existent in Buenos Aires) but maybe more common outside, then the fee won't be as high as your dollars will just get converted to pesos once and not back to u$s dollars.

Cheers.
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Orlando Martinez
New member
Username: Bracsim

Post Number: 13
Registered: 9-2006
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 4:54 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Tom I wish the best for argentina, I have many friends living there and I hope it is like you said, Argentina is a beautiful country and the only thing they dont need is comunism, but look what`s going on around Argentina every country is falling into castro and Chavez rules, this site is not about politics but sometimes we have to talk about it and we all should worry also, Good luck Argentina, and like you said I hope Hugo Chavez run out of oil soon for the best.
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Tom
Advanced Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 323
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Monday, February 12, 2007 - 5:44 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Apts.
I own property in Argentina but have never sold any.
I am working with a group of partners are working on a land developement and represent a firm that sells land.
I know that to cash a check at bank is very costly so I don't do it.
I either bring money in with me to the country or get it with an atm card.
I have done a lot of business in Argentina, more as a hunting broker.
It has been over the last year that I have started looking at buying real estate for developement.
Are you a real estate broker?

My web site is

http://www.argentinahunting.4t.com
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Simon Fawkes
New member
Username: Expatba

Post Number: 4
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 1:56 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Tom

The process of buying real estate in Argentina is relatively straightforward, however there is a lot of disinformation about and many so-called experts don't seem to know all the facts, or else will manipulate what they tell you for their own advantage - e.g. charging phantom taxes which are only applicable in certain circumstances, to name but one.

My recent book The Complete Guide To Real Estate Investment In Argentina includes a comprehensive explanation of the real estate buying process and the traps and scams to look out for. If you are interested you can find details on Amazon at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1430303980

Simon

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