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Bob Frassinetti
Junior Member
Username: Frassinetti

Post Number: 30
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 4:29 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

The Know How on purchasing property in Argentina. Investing in Argentina.

Ten easy steps to buying your property here in Argentina

1) Start searching for your property with the help of a Real Estate or Consulting Agent
2) Choose the property
3) Get a personal Tax number
4) Choose a property lawyer known as an “escribano” to help in your purchase and signing the final title of property
5) Make an written offer thru the Real Estate Agent with a symbolic down payment of no more than a 1 or 2% value of property
6) Choose best way to get funds into the country thru an exchange operator or an international branch of your home bank.
7) Transfer legally funds into the country
8) Foreigners don’t sign what’s named a Boleto de Compra Venta, which is a private contract between two parties, the seller and the buyer of the property. But go directly to the Escritura or final deed of title which takes around anything from 15 to 30 days.
9) Pay and sign final property deed with seller and with your escribano.
10) Get it certified and inscribed by your “escribano” and bingo! Finished

Here is just an out line in Ten easy steps…………. I will be describing in time more detailed information. So all those willing to contribute with known facts please do, I think this Forum deserves more exact information……… hope I’m been useful to future investors here in Buenos Aires or in any part of Argentina.

Bob Frassinetti

(Message edited by admin on September 26, 2006)
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Tom Woodson
Intermediate Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 190
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Saturday, September 23, 2006 - 12:15 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

what part does the notary public have in this sceniro. Notaries publico or what ever they are called.
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Bob Frassinetti
Junior Member
Username: Frassinetti

Post Number: 35
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - 1:39 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

An insight on what is an Escribano, its functions and importance.



The word in Spanish Escribano can be translated as Notary public, meaning someone legally empowered to witness signatures and certify a document's validity and to take depositions. However, the ins and outs of the property purchase in Argentina being different from those in other countries –each country has its own laws and legislations- seem to require a detailed explanation of his or her functions.

Hereby a thorough description and explanation:



What is the Role of an Escribano in property purchase?



Escribanos are Law MD professionals working on the public function to which the State delegates the faculty of “giving public faith” –that’s how it’s said here, meaning validating the authenticity of contracts, actions and facts and therefore granting people’s individual rights. The escribano in his action provides the authenticity seal required.

However the functions and obligations of Escribanos begin before the actual contract is signed.

It is in their order of tasks to know in depth the ins and outs of the operations that will take place. In the case of property purchase first thing first, the Escribano interviews with both parties involved in the purchase and provides his expertise word in suggesting the most suitable contract for the kind of purchase that will take place.

The escribano is also the one in charge of writing the title, and in order to carry on that task properly he or she has to study the title by controlling the authenticity of prior titles as well as checking that none of these titles have any sort of inhibitions or nullities that will affect the new owner. The Escribano controls the certification of the property at the National Registry of Property to make sure that it doesn’t have mortgages or is legally obstructed, nor tax debts.

All this controls take place before the parties are ready to sign as to avoid inconveniences.

Once the property research is clear, then the Escribano writes the tile in agreement of the parties involved.

At the moment of title signing- firma de escritura-, the Escribano will also act as tax retention agent on behalf of the State, and afterwards these taxes and seals are forwarded to public administration in due time.

Once the escritura- title was singed the Escribano has to plead testimony as well as inscribe the property under the new owner’s name at the National Registry of property.



Is it necessary the intervention of an Escribano?



Yes, because these professionals have been awarded by the State to certify the authenticity these acts and transactions. The public title is only valid if overseen by an Escribano.


Bob Frassinetti
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Tom Woodson
Intermediate Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 197
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - 7:28 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

thanks for the very excellent explanation

What happens if the Escribano makes a mistake and there is what we call in the US, a cloud on the title, such as a valid mortgage that was not found by the escribano or the seller does not have a clear title to the property. Is the Escribano liable for the mistake.

In US language the Escribano does a title search.
He gives legal advice as to the correct document to use.
He overseas the signing of the title transfer.
He collects the taxes.
He records the new title.

In Florida, other states may do it differently, the title search is normally done by a title company or an attorney. The buyer and seller may purchase a title policy, insurance against a mistake being made on the title search. If there is a mortgage normally the buyer, who becomes the mortgagor, is required to buy a title policy.
The title or deed then has to be recorded in the public records.
The taxes would be collected and paid by the person or legal entity recording the deed or property title.
The notary public's function in all this is he notarises the signatures of the two witnesses who observe the signing of the transfer of title documents. Two witnesses are required under Florida law for a valid transfer of title of real property. The Notary cannot be one of the witnesses nor can a member of the family of the seller or buyer.

However, a valid transfer of property can be done without any help from anyone as long as the document has all the necessary wording to transfer the property and it is signed by two witnesses. It does not have to be notarized but the buyer runs the risk of someone challenging the validity of the transfer and if the buyer cannot find the witnesses he can lose the property. Most recording agencies, if not all, now require the notary's seal and signature to verify the witnesses did observe the signing. I am not sure but I think it is now the law that there has to be a notary seal and signature before the title clerk can record the transfer document.

The transfer document does not have to state the amount paid for the property. Usually it is written "ten dollars($10.00) and other valuable consideration"

Given all this under Argentine law the Escribano has a huge responsibility.
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Carmen Stigliano
New member
Username: Carmen

Post Number: 15
Registered: 9-2005
Posted on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 12:12 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Here we have the Registro de la Propiedad Inmueble de la Capital Federal that depends on the Ministerio de Justicia. They are the ones that give the the inform to the Escribano on the title of the property you want to buy.

Visit this site and go to frecuently asked questions:

http://www.dnrpi.jus.gov.ar/

It is in Spanish.
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Tom Woodson
Intermediate Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 218
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Saturday, October 07, 2006 - 4:15 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Here is an excellent article on investing in Mendoza and the wine growing options

http://www.escapeartist.com/OREQ23/Argentina_Wine. html
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Apartmentsba.com
Intermediate Member
Username: Saint

Post Number: 106
Registered: 5-2005


Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 1:05 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Actually Bob, your are wrong when you say that foreigners don't do a boleto. Most locals will NOT sell their property without the boleto stage done. It's very difficult many times to skip this process unless the property is unoccupied and can be closed in a fairly short amount of time. Boletos are typically done even on foreign purchased transactions....
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Tom Woodson
Intermediate Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 242
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 2:45 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

What is a boleto por favor?
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Apartmentsba.com
Intermediate Member
Username: Saint

Post Number: 107
Registered: 5-2005


Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 2:56 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Tom,

You can find out about the boleto and pretty much the entire buying process here at the link below. It accurately describes the process of buying here in Buenos Aires. Keep in mind the process could be different in other parts of Argentina. In other parts (including areas like Bariloche) the laws are different and foreigners have a more difficult time and must get a permit to buy and now many are getting turned away for this permit.

http://www.apartmentsba.com/argentina-real-estate- consulting-&-property-management-69/buenos-aires-r eal-estate-buying-process-84/
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Tom Woodson
Intermediate Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 244
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 5:34 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Nice page.
But can you in 25 words or less tell me what it is here.
Gracias Amigo
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 801
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 8:00 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Tom, if I remember correctly the signing of a "escritura" crystallizes a real estate transaction but sometimes this closing contract gets delayed for whatever reason. In such cases, seller and buyer decide to sign a 'boleto de compra/venta' to seal the deal, where the seller requests a deposit from the buyer prior to the signing of the escritura.

This 'boleto' usually has most if not all the information that will later be part of the 'escritura' so it is a valid contract that can take place as an 'escritura' for banks and other agencies. The 'boleto' will also include penalities for lack of execution, fines for delays and other related matters. A 'boleto' is a firm intention of purchase. Someone correct me if this isn't right.
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Apartmentsba.com
Intermediate Member
Username: Saint

Post Number: 108
Registered: 5-2005


Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 9:10 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Roberto. You are correct. I've always been amazed that people don't want to take the time to read detailed information that someone takes the time to provide. I guess we live in a "I want it now" world. No, I can't explain it in 25 words or less and really you should take the time to read everything if you are thinking of buying here.

The "escritura" is the title deed signing. It's the closing when the seller signs over the deed with the buyer. The cash is paid and the Escribano does the closing and both sides sign the closing title deed.

In the majority of the cases in Buenos Aires, the closing can't be done immediately. Because the seller doesn't want to take the property off the market because the buyer might back out, they most of the times want to do a "boleto". This is an intermediary step. Typically the seller requests 30% of the purchase price. This step protects both the seller and the buyer.

If the buyer backs out, they lose the 30% boleto deposit they left. If the seller backs out, they not only must return the 30% deposit but they must double it. This is done to prevent the seller from trying to cancel out and accept a higher offer.

Basically, the boleto is the point of no return for both sides. I've purchased tens of millions of real estate in Buenos Aires and I've never seen a deal fall apart once the boleto was done. I work with several of the cities finest and most respected Escribanos and none of them have ever had a deal fall apart once a boleto was done.

If the boleto isn't done they will at least want to do a "sena" which is a down payment with penalties for both sides as well. Keep in mind there is no such a thing as a 10 step description to follow. MANY real estate deals are VERY complicated here. It's almost never as easy as you would think. Many things come up that you wouldn't expect.

I've purchased apartments, land, buildings and seen several various problems. Just go into the buying process having a very good Escribano and knowing what you are doing and understand the laws. It's VERY different here than many parts of the world. Keep in mind almost every single transaction is 100% cash literally handed over the table.

Again, I've purchased a lot of real estate here. 99% of them were cash over the table with the seller literally counting each bill. I've purchased u$s million dollar properties where they are there at the table counting every single bill. It's very surreal. In this kind of environment...there is no room for mistakes..

Good luck all.
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Tom Woodson
Intermediate Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 245
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 8:32 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks Roberto
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Tom
Advanced Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 375
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 9:13 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Roberto
I arrainge hunting trips to Argentina. Where do you suggest I talk about it.
Thanks

hunting in Argentina
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1112
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 9:51 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Ah, that is a tough one Tom...

I hate to see animals being killed for sports. Just out of respect to you I am leaving the picture you posted intact but let the world know that when I see such image I am hurt. I know this is big, have met many others who traveled to Argentina just for this and I am nobody to stop it.

If possible, I'd like to see no discussions around this topic.
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DAN
New member
Username: Crazygaucho

Post Number: 15
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 8:02 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

totally agree with Roberto I'd be willing to call it a sport only if you willing to kill them without any weapons (hunting might be call if you kill an animal to provide food for you or your family)
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Arial
Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 92
Registered: 10-2006


Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 11:56 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I have to appreciate you soft-hearted guys. I assume that you are both vegetarians! Arial
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1113
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 1:18 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I should add... thank you for asking first, TOM. I always appreciate(d) your kindness in this forum.

I understand the mind-set. I understand the challenge. I undertand the excitement. Perhaps, I even share all of it but I have made a decision not to do it. I also understand grabbing my iron bat and chasing the guy who is tailgating me. But I don't do that either.

It appears soft-hearted. Instead, it's a principle.
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Tom
Advanced Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 376
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 9:33 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Roberto, I understand and will respect your request. Hunting for sport is always controversial. If you do not mind I have some comments and then will let this go.

The practical aspects of hunting are often overlooked and misunderstood.

A prime example in Argentina is deer. Before man deer had natural preditors that were keeping the herds down and kept the balance. When deer are not hunted they proliferate causing habitat to be used up and diseases which attack and wipe out the entire herd. Since lions and tigers and bears, oh my, do not roam in the same abundance as they once did (these preditors are not appreciated much, it seems people like their livestock, pets, children and even themselves to the degree they are not willing to tolerate them being around in any number) deer must be hunted by man.
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Tom
Advanced Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 377
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 10:06 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Argentina is known worldwide for excellent hunting.

Strict provincial and federal laws regulate the sport with a heavy tax structure in place.

For instance, it costs 300 pesos for a weapons permit to bring a hunting rifle into the country which is paid at Ezezia and it must be taken out of the country when the hunter leaves.

The hunter must also have a hunting license. For deer and other big game he must also have a permit for each individual animal.

Big game hunting costs start at $250 US dollars per day and range up to $600 and even more in the Baraloche region for lodging and meals. Then the cost of the animal they choose to hunt is added which range from $800 up to $2500 depending on the species to be hunted.

When a farmer sees a puma or more likely sees his livestock, sheep, goat, calves(baby cows) laying dead on the ground they call the hunting outfitters who will pay the farmer to allow them to hunt the puma on their land. Puma's are definitely not an endangered species in Argentina. The cost of a Puma is $2500 US dollars. A typical costs for two hunters just for the hunt runs around $12000 US dollars. That does not include most of the taxes, tranportation, lodging and entertainment in Buenos Aires nor the costs of souverniers and other purchases.
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Tom
Advanced Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 378
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 10:35 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

The hunted animal is not wasted.
The head and skins usually become trophies.
Some of the most beautiful leather goods sold in Argentina comes from deer hides.

The meat is eaten. My partner gives excess meat to a local orphanage run by nuns and a home for the elderly. It has been my experience with hunting that hunters eat their kills or give the meat to someone. It is certainly not sporting to just kill the animal and leave it to rot.

The impact on the Argentine economy is larger than most people know. We have hunters coming in from North America, Europe, Asia, South Africa, and Australia. We have over a half million acres of owned or leased land available for our hunters. These are wealthy people who are accustomed to spending money when they go on vacation.

We employ three chefs, numerous maids and guides, and use local taxis to get the hunters to the estancias. Many of these people live, eat and sleep in the lodges. In addition to their normal wages it is customery for the hunter to tip the guides, maid and chef at the end of his hunt. The guides normally get $50 from each hunter. A typical four to six hunting group can be a nice hit for each of the guides. And we are not talking about working in coal mines here. Living on a beautiful estancia with excellent meals, comfortable lodging and roaming the great vastness of rural Argentina has got to be rated amoung the best blue collar jobs in the world. The hunting season is mainly in the winter, summer in the US, Canada, Europe, Asia. The chefs work the winter on our estancias and the summer at resort hotels. They can make wild game into the best meals you can eat.


We pay farmers to hunt on their property and for the best hunting areas we lease the land in addition to our own farm land. The farmer goes on with his normal farming while we have the hunting rights.

Our hunters like other tourist come, spend their money and leave having little effect on the community other than the income generated.
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Tom
Advanced Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 379
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 11:04 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Compared to the way most of the meat we eat is produced, wild game hunting is probably the most humaine source.

They are not raised in pins, feed lots, stalls but are roaming free and must be hunted to balance the lack of natural preditors that are not tolerated by pleasant society. When someone sees their like in their back yard an immediate call to some type of animal control is made. Exit preditor.

The hunting is done with rifles, bows and arrows, and knives. The true hunter can be counted amoung the most avid enviornmentalists who love the outdoors and natures natural beauty. He knows the importance of not overhunting, not hunting during the mateing season, bagging only full grown animals, safety with weapons and preserving natural habitat.

I will not apologize for being a meat eater. Numerous accounts in the Holy Bible cite instructions from God to kill the fatted calf for fiests. If God said is was the thing to do, so be it.
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Tom
Advanced Member
Username: Diverdown48

Post Number: 380
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 11:39 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Finally, and I apologize to anyone I may have offended, hunting is not only a sport, a souce of toursit revenue and taxes, a necessity to maintain balances amoung wild animals, it is necessary to control animals that cause harm to farm products.

I have heard estimates of up to 30 percent of the corn and gain crops being lost to dove and pigeons. These birds in particular are massive in numbers in the land of the tango. Cordoba province is famous worldwide among bird hunters for its vast numbers of dove as well as other parts of the country.

In one instance the pigeons in Pique, Buenos Aries province was so bad the mayor called my partner to bring hunters into town to help eradicate them. Hunting them was less dangerous than poisioning them which would have caused deaths among pets, farm animals, and contamination of groundwater.

I have been a Bambi lover all my life. I will admit I shed a tear the first time I saw the movie. But understand, I was just a kid, no doubt. Seriously.

I see the benifits of hunting in Argentina in a lot of ways. And even thought I do hardly any hunting myself, I love being out in the countryside, the thrill of the hunt and the good life that it affords to a lot of decent people who are hunters and others who support the business.

Again, I hope I have not overly offended anyone.

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