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Zander
New member
Username: Xanpatagon

Post Number: 3
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Friday, March 14, 2008 - 4:19 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hello,

I need to bring several things down to Argentina. Not a houseload (got rid of that last summer), but perhaps a little more than the size of a coat closet.

Can anyone tell me of their good experience with a shipper?

The contents need to shipped from Portland, Oregon to BA, clear customs in BA, and be received in Bariloche, hopefully without my intervention.

(That is unless they can come across from Chile...that would be closer.)

Any advice is welcome.

Thanks
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1588
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Friday, March 14, 2008 - 8:59 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Going off on a tangent... did you check to see if there is a local gazette for the argentine community in Portland? There may be classifieds of specialized moving companies. In Miami, the local argentine gazette has at least 3 different companies advertising their door-to-door services. But the argentine community in Miami is fairly large...
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Bill Howard
Junior Member
Username: Veritas01

Post Number: 46
Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 15, 2008 - 8:45 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

No personal experience however a publication in the New York area for Argentines lists the following company. Di Paola's Shipping. Specializing in shipping to Argentina. Here is the New York numbers. They have a New Jersey and Toronto office as well. (347) 645-5822 and (718) 397-0960. I think in your case you will need to use some type of domestic shipping to New York or Miami and then ship from there to Argentina. Not sure if they speak English but presumably they do.

There is a very large Argentine community in New York / New Jersey so these guys must have experience in customs, etc. They will have to arrange for an Argentine domestic carrier to ship to Bariloche from BA I suspect. This will probably wind up being an expensive proposition so consider buying new or used in Argentina especially if this is not a permanent move. Good luck with this. Worth a try. I will go through some of the other Argentine/American publications and see if I can find other shipping company listings.

Good luck.
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Zander
New member
Username: Xanpatagon

Post Number: 5
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Saturday, March 15, 2008 - 11:19 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hello Roberto and Bill,

Thanks for the advice...I'll follow up on it. I have a friend with an Argentine neighbor in Portland...perhaps he knows of a shipper.

This is a permanent move. There are a few things I have in the US that do not exist here, at any price. It is just those that I need to get here.

Bill, does your handle "veritas01" have anything to do with Dr. David Hawkins? His teachings are amazing.
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WTMendoza.com
Intermediate Member
Username: Welcometomendoza

Post Number: 183
Registered: 7-2007


Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 10:48 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Zander - I would avoid BA customs at all costs - I would also start reversed by connecting with at least 3 customs brokers in Bariloche, whom I am sure will advise you to route it through Santiago Chile or another Chilean port, if there is one, then over the mountains into Argentina.

Hopefully you have your residential visa so that you save the harsh taxes that will be imposed such a shipment.

If your run into dead ends send me a PM and I'll put you in touch with a quality Mendoza customs broker who speaks perfect English and can probably reccomend you a method.

Again, if you route it through BA customs, you are asking for delays, expenses, and trouble...cheers
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Zander
New member
Username: Xanpatagon

Post Number: 6
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 11:31 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Yes, I understand....it probably takes bribes to get it through BA customs...even though I now have my permanent residence.

The closest Chilean port to Bariloche is Puerto Montt. It is not very big, but it is growing fast, and eventually I believe is going to bring Asian goods into Argentine Patagonia. much better than going through the Panama Canal.

I will try to find a customs broker in Bariloche...can you tell me what that is called in Spanish?

If this is possible, it would be a great option.

And, yes, I would like to have the contact info for your broker in Mendoza. He may know a broker in Bariloche, or perhaps he is the best person to do this himself.

Thanks again.

I'm off to Chile until after Easter and will check back in then.

Look at this....

http://www.parquepumalin.cl/content/index.htm
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WTMendoza.com
Intermediate Member
Username: Welcometomendoza

Post Number: 184
Registered: 7-2007


Posted on Monday, March 17, 2008 - 7:29 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Zander - I sent you the data.

That park in looks very cool - I look forward to visiting it sometime in 08/09 - cheers
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Valentine Michael Smith
New member
Username: Vmsmith

Post Number: 1
Registered: 3-2008
Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 8:34 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I moved to Argentina a little over a year ago and shipped my entire household. It was something like 12,000 pounds in a 20-foot container. I had absolutely no problems with customs or anything else.

What you want is a shipper who meets some or all of the following criteria:

1. ISO 9000/1/2 certified
2. Member of FIDI (http://www.fidi.com/)
3. RIM (Registered International Mover) certified

Normally, that will lead you to a large company that has local shipping agents in your point of origin and point of destination.

In my case, I used Atlas Van Lines International, 9750 Third Ave. NE, Suite 200, Seattle, WA 98115. Their local agent in Argentina was Argenmove, which is the local company the U.S. Department of State uses, too.

The move was flawless from start to finish. Nothing lost, nothing damaged, and all estimates essentially accurate. There were absolutely no problems with customs at this end. I had my temporary residency papers, and customs did a cursory check of one of the boxes then assessed the entire shipment at $15,000 pesos. At that point, I had to find an insurance guaranteor to cover me until my residency becomes permanent, and Argenmove helped me do that.

The guy who was my point of contact at Atlas was Matthew Hagenah. His contact info is:

PH# 888-338-9875
PH# 206-436-0161
FX# 206-971-3826
E-Mail: mhagenah@atlasintl.com

If you want to talk to Argenmove (which I encourage), the points of contact are Daniel or Noelia Oviedo. They both speak flawless English. The e-mail address is argenmove@argenmove.com.ar (put "For Daniel Oviedo" is the subject line). The website is http://www.argenmove.com.ar

By the way, once my stuff arrived here, I put it in storage for four months with Argenmove, and there were no problems during or after.

Good luck.
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WTMendoza.com
Intermediate Member
Username: Welcometomendoza

Post Number: 189
Registered: 7-2007


Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 8:58 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Valentine,

Thanks for posting this - was this to BA?
What was the landed cost for that 20 footer? you know..all costs from door to door? thanks
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Valentine Michael Smith
New member
Username: Vmsmith

Post Number: 2
Registered: 3-2008
Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 10:16 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

The total door-to-door cost from the U.S. to Buenos Aires was about USD $14,000. This included:

-Packing out in the U.S.
-Repacking into a shipping van
-Moving the shipping van to the port and U.S. port fees
-Shipping from the U.S. to Buenos Aires
-Port fees in Buenos Aires
-Four months of storage
-Delivery, unpacking, and removal of all waste from my apartment

VMS
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WTMendoza.com
Intermediate Member
Username: Welcometomendoza

Post Number: 191
Registered: 7-2007


Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 10:53 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

how much was that storage?

A recent example of a 20 footer from San Diego, California to Mendoza, thrugh Santiago, Chile was under $7000 USD final cost. The quoted amount was about $6200USD

I realize tha this routing is not the same as yours, on neither end, but the general direction is roughly the same. What city did you ship from?

I suspect that the most complaints one will hear about BA, are the siuations involving last minute surprise costs, etc...which tend to lend to delays in the shipments, customs, becuase of delays in decision making by the cusomer who ha been presented by these last minute costs. Also, I hear consistently that BA customs are slow moving..creating more complaints...how long did it take to clear the shipment? Although i know this may have not been a factor for you since you were not intersted in having the shipment at your door right away.
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Valentine Michael Smith
New member
Username: Vmsmith

Post Number: 3
Registered: 3-2008
Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 2:25 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I shipped from Baltimore.

The fact of the 20-foot container was not the long pole in the tent in computing costs; weight was. My container was absolutely jam-packed, and I didn't get the total cost until they had weighed it. That cost was just over USD $1 per pound.

There were no hold ups at all at customs in Buenos Aires. The ship arrived on whatever day it was and two days later I was unloading my stuff in storage. I attribute that to the complete professionalism and competence of Argenmove. Those people were great. I don't remember off the top of my head how much the storage fees were.

If you have some fraction of a 20-foot container, you should make sure to ask about using "lift vans." A lift van is a wooden containers, five of which fit into a 20-foot container. They look something like this...

http://www.woodenpackaging.co.uk/BudgetLiftVan1.JP G

A good moving company will give you the option of using a lift van instead of an entire 20-foot container.
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WTMendoza.com
Intermediate Member
Username: Welcometomendoza

Post Number: 208
Registered: 7-2007


Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2008 - 9:56 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Valentine, okay you used a moving company and I was talking about a shipping company...two different things and sorry I didn't clarify.

The shipping companies only charge by space, not by weight, unless your 20 foot container exceeds way over 10,000 kilos....so your 6300 kilo container probably cost your moving company somewhere in the areas of 5 to 7 K USD. The rest was the packing and consolidated shipping...they came into your home and hand packed each plate, etc...and insured it for you using their system ,etc....

People I know have packed it themselves, hired their own transit company to ship it to the Shipping company's port, interacting with customs broker on the Argentine end, etc...resulting in much lower charges...

Two different situations for two different kinds of circumstances...Some people want this..eveything handled from A to Z, like you did...I would do in a heartbeat if I could afford it.

Thanks for helping to clarify this...

Just to reiterate, if anyone is shipping to western Argentina, I strongly encourage shipping through Chile and clearing customs in a western Argentine city and not BA.
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Valentine Michael Smith
New member
Username: Vmsmith

Post Number: 4
Registered: 3-2008


Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2008 - 2:23 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

One other point of clarification...

My total costs included insurance. As we have spent years collecting our rugs, art, and furniture, we insured the entire thing for a hefty amount.

And my point is not that the insurance premium was so high, but it's hard to get insurance if you don't have a professional moving company doing the pack out at origin and unpacking as destination.

In my case, our head company, Atlas International, and its two local movers had such solid reputations that the insurance company gave them -- and me -- a real break on how long they would let me keep the insurance umbrella while it was all in storage. Normally insured storage lasts something like 45 or 60 days, but in my case they allowed an extension to 120 days based on the working relationship with Atlas. I know this because I saw the faxed letter.

Just another thing to consider if you decide to ship the entire thing yourself.
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Zander
New member
Username: Xanpatagon

Post Number: 7
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2008 - 2:56 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I just called Atlas in Seattle and they will be giving me a quote.

I won't be in the US to ship from there so someone is going to have to handle that end.

The idea is to bring it in through Chile as there is a local customs office in Bariloche and that would avoid any potential mess in Buenos Aires.

Likely all will fit in 7x7x4 container and less than 1000 pounds. All else I got rid of last summer when I was in the US.
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Arial
Intermediate Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 215
Registered: 10-2006


Posted on Sunday, May 18, 2008 - 3:07 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Just for those who come after me, I have called Atlas several times because of the reco on this forum.

First they asked if I had looked into mailing (?), then I got someone else in Seattle who warned me that it would be very expensive but said he would send me literature about the requirements for entry of the shipment into Argentina.

It's been two weeks and it didn't come. So I called back last week and left a message on the voicemail of Matthew Hegenah (I didn't ask for him the first time). No response. I've wasted two weeks on Atlas so guess I'll look elsewhere. I am in Central Florida where there is an Atlas office so I thought they might be the best for me.

However I do appreciate recommendations. I always feel better proceeding if someone else has gone before me and been happy with the result.
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Arial
Intermediate Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 216
Registered: 10-2006


Posted on Sunday, May 18, 2008 - 3:22 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

One question. I am planning to return to Argentina ASAP and wanted to tie up all loose ends here before I go, including arrangements for shipping.

After rereading Mendoza's post, I am thinking . . . I have a cargo trailer and help here. I could pack and prepare now and have it delivered to Miami to the port when I am ready for shipping.

Are there any specifications as to how it should be packed if I decide to do that? Any reason this would not work? Any specific box dimensions or anything like that? Any hints anyone can give me? I am anxious to get this project completed!
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Zander
New member
Username: Xanpatagon

Post Number: 8
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Sunday, May 18, 2008 - 6:36 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hello all,

Just to report back....Atlas in Seattle (and other full service shippers) wanted $4500 for door to door service (packing, shipping, clearing customs, delivery) for about 3wx7hx3d foot space, and less than 1000 pounds.

Estimated value of these items...less than $800. But they are things I can't get in Argentina or Chile.

The thing I want most down here is my Bowflex, but it is an older one and only worth $300. The lowest cost to ship just the bowflex was $1500, but that was with a shipper who ignored my request for qualifications.

So, I'm thinking it is not worth the price....however I would be willing to pay some freight to someone who would include my Bowflex in a large container they wanted to bring down.

The other option is...I was recently in Chile was told that because of trade agreements, it is possible to bring (some) things from the US into Chile duty free.

Also, there is a customs processing facility in Bariloche, and was told that it is possible to clear customs there instead of Buenos Aires. I don't know the specifics yet.

Anyone have space I can rent in a large container?
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WTMendoza.com
Intermediate Member
Username: Welcometomendoza

Post Number: 249
Registered: 7-2007


Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 9:51 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Arial, follow the shipping/moving company fuidelines - this is crucial.
Also relaize that there are shipping companies and moving companies. Moving companies can even handle door to door pack-up / un-pack, etc - much more money.

Golden rule - if you ship a 20 foot or 40 foot container - it is much more bang for the buck. LTL (less than container load) can be pricey depending...

Moving companies operate fairly well with BA customs. Shipping companies can get tangled up in customs delays becuase the moing company is not on top of your stuff if they are not involved. Clearing customs in Western Argentina is a breeze, you can almost do it yourself.
Don't forget without your residnetial visa, you will be subject to MASSIVE taxes on your stuff. Good luck!
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Roberto
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1680
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 2:08 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

And one more for Arial... Do you think it may be a good idea to check with shippers/movers from Miami? If so, here are some contacts and websites:

Aerocargas Argentinas
Omega Shipping
Encomiendas y Mudanzas
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Arial
Intermediate Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 221
Registered: 10-2006


Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 6:13 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Much appreciated, Roberto!

I hope to be in Argentina soon to continue my search for a place to ship TO. My son wants to make contact with a customs agent there and see what he recommends and if perhaps someone at customs would work with us. I will report whatever we find out. Also the Miami shippers might be just what we need. We can get the stuff to Miami--no problemo!--just need someone to handle it from there.

Incidentally I did contact Argenmove. They tell me that I have six months to bring my things in, duty and tax free, if I do it within 6 months of when I renew my residency next time. Anyone have more information about this? I have no idea why doing it after my next renewal is better than now but, after all . . . it IS Argentina! Making sense is not a requirement!
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Valentine Michael Smith
New member
Username: Vmsmith

Post Number: 5
Registered: 3-2008


Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 10:54 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Arial wrote, "Incidentally I did contact Argenmove. They tell me that I have six months to bring my things in, duty and tax free, if I do it within 6 months of when I renew my residency next time."

You might want to double check this and make sure you understood them correctly. My initial understanding of the residency/customs fees rules was that we have (1) six months from the time we initially move here, and then (2) six months from the time our residency is finalized.

But a friend recently shipped a second household shipment after her residency was finalized, and she appears to be getting dinged by customs.

So again, you might want to check back with Argenmove and be sure you understood correctly what they are saying.
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Arial
Intermediate Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 224
Registered: 10-2006


Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 7:04 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks and of course I agree. I did write back and restated the above and asked if I understood correctly. They wrote back and restated it. Same thing. But of course things can be lost in the translation.

I plan to be in Argentina in about a month and we plan to talk to a customs agent then. I also have been around Argentina enough to know that you need to ask several people (unless you asked Roberto ) and all answers can be wrong.

What you wrote has a ring of truth to it though and I have a feeling you are correct. But I will check.

However, when you say finalized, do you mean after we have permanent status?
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WTMendoza.com
Advanced Member
Username: Welcometomendoza

Post Number: 259
Registered: 7-2007


Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 8:29 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

In addition to listening to the shipping company versions, I wholeheartedly reccomend also opening a line of communication with AFIP Customs themselves to get claification. They are obliged to help and will answer the basic questions and point you to text in their code that supports it. Good luck!
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Zander
New member
Username: Xanpatagon

Post Number: 9
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 9:36 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Here is the way I understand it.

You really don't own your stuff!!

The governments (US Govt also) have a partial claim on your possessions in terms of the taxes they levy.

When you bring something into a country, even though you already own it in another country and have already paid taxes on it, the new country expects to be able to tax it. This is because if you bought that stuff in the new country, the government of that country would benefit from taxes you paid.

Once the government gets their tax, your stuff has been "nationalized", meaning it now has legal residence in that country.

When you get a temporary residence visa you can bring your things into Argentina on a temporary basis. I believe that means that the import taxes are essentially deferred until you get your permanent residence.

If I remember right when you bring your stuff in under a temporary residence you have to pay a bond or insurance that will cover the eventual cost of the import taxes should you fail to get your permanent residence.

If you fail to get your permanent residence you will need to either take your stuff out of the country or pay the import taxes.

When you get your permanent residence you have up to 6 months from the issue of the residence visa to get your stuff here. Past that six months it then again reverts to the normal heavy duty taxes.

Strange to think that the stuff you "own" also needs to get residence.

This is the way I understand it, but I could be wrong.
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Valentine Michael Smith
New member
Username: Vmsmith

Post Number: 6
Registered: 3-2008


Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 3:00 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Zander wrote: "When you get your permanent residence you have up to 6 months from the issue of the residence visa to get your stuff here. Past that six months it then again reverts to the normal heavy duty taxes."

I don't know about the rest of this post, but this was my understanding, too. Getting permanent residency confers the right to bring in a second shipment of household goods for up to six months after it's been conferred.

But again, a friend of mine is currently having problems (although it might be simply because she waited too long after her permanent residency was conferred).

And also, if you bring household goods in before you get permanent residency, you have to pay an insurance guarantee (generally quarterly) until you actually get the permanent residency.
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Arial
Intermediate Member
Username: Arial

Post Number: 225
Registered: 10-2006


Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2008 - 12:07 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks to you both. All sounds logical and I betcha you are right. (Hehehehehe Except that who said Argentina was logical? )

And Zander, good and accurate observation about who owns your stuff. I did have that figured out. I owned a home in the US for many years (I say that loosely of course). Before real estate taxes became law--believe it or not there was a time when there was no real estate tax--we owned our homes. Now we do not. We rent them from the state. And if you think I am wrong, just try not paying your real estate tax and see if they can evict you!

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